If you were Dr Ogden R. Lindsley’s student, you were either all in or you weren’t, because precision teaching necessitates passion, dedication and an adherence to B.F. Skinner’s discovery of Rate of Response as the primary and most sensitive measure of behavior.

From the first time Patrick McGreevy heard Ogden speak he was “all in”!

This is Part 1 of the recording of my interview with Dr Patrick McGreevy, or Brother Pat as Og called him. In part 1 he shares how he fell in love with teaching children with severe disabilities, which led him to change his career path from psychology to special education.

Patrick goes on to share what he learned from Ogden back when he was a doctoral student, his dedication to teaching others and passing on Og’s commitment to the Standard Celeration Chart - precise measurement and closely attending to the learner. He acknowledges all the mentors he’s had along the way - the Long Timers as he calls them - who have been and continue to be all in!

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3:57 Pat switches careers from psychology to special education.

9:55 How he and Ogden met.

14:43 Ogden’s expectations of his students.

27:46 His collaboration with “Dr. Fluency”, Eric Haughton.

37:40 About the Essential for Living assessment.

41:29 Why "percent correct" is not a measurement, and Ogden’s commitment to Rate of Response as the most sensitive measure of behavior.

47:41 Pat's vision for the precision teaching community and the world of standardized measurement.

Patrick Macgreevy’s book: Teaching and Learning in Plain English: An Introduction to Precision Teaching and Precision Tutoring (*Goodreads)

Ogden’s article in the Journal of Precision Teaching: Say Reward, Relief, Punishment or Penalty

Ogden’s book: Skinner on Measurement

Visit Essential for Living’s website.

07:41 “I wasn't particularly interested in teaching children to read. That didn't interest me. I was more interested in teaching daily living skills to kids that couldn't communicate, the kids that couldn't toilet properly, the children that didn't know how to feed themselves, and the children who had orthopaedic impairments. Those were the kids that really interested me.”

32:50 “You have to decide the context in which to teach it because a lot of kids with more severe disabilities don't experience generalization like the rest of us do, so you've got to teach it. You've got to teach the right skills—the skills that matter. You got to teach them into context. You see, and then you have to teach them the fluency. Yeah. And then you have to have the teaching procedures to get you there.”