In This Episode

Katie and Beth explore how AI, genomics, and healthcare are colliding—and what it means for the future of prediction, ethics, and our most personal data. They also delve into personal aspects of work-life rhythms and reimagine what it means to live in communities built for connection, not isolation.

Why You’ll Want to Watch

• How predictive analytics can go dangerously wrong without quality input
• Why ownership and consent matter in genetic research and personal data
• How built environments shape our sense of belonging
• What ancient innovations can teach us about designing for dignity
• And: Why your vacation might need a vacation

Meet Your Hosts

• Beth Rudden – CEO and Founder of Bast AI, former IBM Distinguished Engineer, and author of AI for the Rest of Us. Beth builds tools that make AI explainable, ethical, and human-centered, spanning healthcare, education, and workforce transformation.
• Katie Smith – CEO and Co-Founder of Humma.AI, and author of Zoe Bios: The Epigenetics of Terrorism. Katie blends two decades of leadership in tech commerce and social impact, building privacy-first systems rooted in equity, systems thinking, and human experience.

Top Takeaways

• AI in healthcare is powerful—but it’s only as good as the data it’s built on
• Predictive tools need consent, context, and cultural competence
• Genetic data must be owned, not extracted
• Community design impacts public health and connection
• Offline spaces are still the future of meaningful interaction

Chapters

00:00 – Intro & Vacation Reflections

05:11 – The Intersection of AI and Healthcare

12:16 – Predictive Data and Bias

19:02 – Ethics in AI and Genetic Research

24:44 – Rethinking Scientific Breakthroughs

28:16 – Lessons from Ancient Infrastructure

30:37 – Longevity vs. Quality of Life

31:46 – The Role of Government in Research

34:30 – Consent and Ownership in Genomic Data

36:35 – How AI Affects Time Management

39:00 – Libertarianism and Public Good

40:00 – Transparency in Tax Systems

42:16 – Recycling and Community Ethics

43:37 – Cultural Shifts in Behavior

44:11 – Designing for Connection

47:41 – Co-Living, Shared Spaces, and Mental Health

51:27 – Healing Through Community

53:06 – Offline Belonging in a Digital World

56:30 – Outro

Katie and Beth on literacy, dyslexia, and the future of creativity in a tech-driven world.

In this episode: Technology isn't just reshaping how we work—it's transforming how we read, write, and understand the world. Beth and Katie delve into the complex and multifaceted intersection of literacy, dyslexia, and generative AI.

From personal reflections to provocative questions, they explore how AI can empower those with learning disabilities, shift the way we express ourselves, and reimagine what literacy looks like in the 21st century. But they don't stop at promise—they unpack the tension between authenticity and automation, and the risks of losing our humanity in the rush to digitize expression.

This conversation moves from ethics to empathy, from accessibility to artistic integrity, and lands in the heart of what makes us human: the need to be heard, understood, and connected.

Topics Covered

• The intersection of dyslexia, literacy, and generative AI
• Why writing with AI can feel like cheating—and why it might not be
• The evolution of reading, writing, and expression in a digital age
• Navigating authenticity in AI-generated content
• How AI can support creative expression for neurodivergent thinkers
• Transparency and ethics in AI communication tools
• Artistic integrity and the tension between automation and meaning
• Why reading still matters—even as the tools change
• Community, connection, and the future of communication

Key Takeaways

• Generative AI can unlock expressions for people with dyslexia and other learning and cultural differences.
• Authenticity and creativity are still possible, even when AI is part of the process.
• AI tools should enhance, not replace, our (and others) voice and effort.
• The ethical design of AI requires transparency, care, and input from the community.
• The future of literacy must prioritize access, dignity, and human connection.
• Human-created content still carries a kind of value—and soul—that algorithms can't replicate.

Chapters (Timestamps)

00:00 — Introduction and Personal Reflections

03:20 — Literacy, Dyslexia, and AI

06:13 — Generative AI and Its Impact on Communication

08:18 — The Role of AI in Writing and Creativity

11:26 — The Evolution of Language and AI

14:22 — The Future of Communication and Authentic Voices

17:18 — Navigating the Challenges of AI in Writing

20:16 — The Philosophical Implications of AI and Language

23:18 — The Balance Between Technology and Human Effort

26:22 — The Importance of Reading in a Digital Age

29:06 — Conclusion and Final Thoughts

31:19 — The Impact of Legislation on Health Insurance

33:51 — The Role of AI in Communication

36:53 — Human vs. AI: The Future of Reading and Writing

39:48 — The Cost of AI: A Discussion on Resources

43:03 — The Value of Human-Created Content

47:07 — Art and Authenticity in the Age of AI

50:41 — Navigating the Ethics of AI and Data Usage

54:57 — The Future of Community in a Tech-Driven World

Hosted by Beth Rudden and Katie Smith, two builders of systems and challengers of the status quo. Beth is CEO of Bast.AI and a globally recognized expert in trustworthy AI, with decades of experience leading data and ethics at IBM. Katie is the founder of Humma.AI, a strategist who drove innovation and revenue growth at major global brands before turning to human rights and technology for social good. Together, they make complex issues like AI and the impacts on everyday people clear, personal, and impossible to ignore.

In this episode: The future of work is already being rewritten by systems, not people. As AI accelerates labor displacement and concentrates wealth in fewer hands, Universal Basic Income (UBI) has returned to the spotlight. But Katie Smith and Beth Rudden aren’t here to romanticize it.

They break down what UBI really is, why it’s misunderstood, and how tech elites hijack the conversation. They challenge the moral logic of effective altruism and explore why true economic reform demands more than a payout—it requires listening to people on the ground and rewriting the social contract with the community at the center.

From epigenetics and AI ethics to the shrinking middle class, this is not a handout discussion—it’s a call to design something radically better, together.

Topics Covered

• What Universal Basic Income is—and what it isn’t
• AI’s role in accelerating economic collapse and job displacement
• The branding problem: Why “basic” isn’t helping the cause
• Effective altruism and the failure of top-down solutions
• Epigenetics, stress, and the physiological cost of poverty
• Why UBI must be tied to systemic reform—not seen as a silver bullet
• The future of work and the danger of being left behind
• Community-led responses to automation and inequality
• How reimagining contribution can strengthen the middle class

Key Takeaways

• UBI isn’t the finish line—it’s a starting point.AI disruption is forcing urgent questions about labor, value, and equity.
• Effective altruism often centers the donor’s equation, not the community.
• The branding of UBI must shift from “basic needs” to shared contribution.
• Long-term economic health requires investing in people, not platforms.
• Real reform must be community-driven, transparent, and just.

Chapters (Timestamps)

00:00 — Introduction to Universal Basic Income (UBI)

01:53 — Defining UBI and Its Implications

07:12 — The Floor vs. The Ceiling: Understanding UBI's Role

15:26 — Critique of Effective Altruism and Top-Down Solutions

24:54 — Systemic Issues and the Need for Reform

31:28 — Reimagining the Future of Work

34:47 — The Role of Universal Basic Income

37:29 — Understanding Epigenetics and Stress

41:47 — The Dangers of AI and Wealth Distribution

46:29 — Listening to Communities for a Better Future

50:08 — Evolving Capitalism and Effective Altruism

In this reflection episode, Beth and Katie look back on the first seven conversations—threads of grief, growth, tech, and care woven into something bigger. This is our origin story and a soft landing for new listeners.

We talk about the role of community in turbulent times, the power of moral imagination, and the systems we’re unlearning—capitalism, AI, and outdated social contracts. Whether you're here for critique, clarity, or curiosity, this episode sets the stage for where we’re going next.

Topics We Cover

• What we’ve learned across the first 7 episodes
• The role of AI in reshaping human interaction
• Rewriting the social contract for our time
• Capitalism, care, and the future of work
• Why transparency and purpose matter more than ever

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Recap of the Journey

01:17 The Importance of Community and Connection

03:48 Navigating Change in a Rapidly Evolving World

06:15 The Impact of AI on Human Interaction

08:33 Trust and Reality in a Changing Landscape

11:32 Reimagining the Social Contract

13:56 Exploring Power Dynamics and Technology

16:15 The Future of Work and Universal Basic Income

25:39 The Role of Media and Data in Shaping Reality

26:54 Understanding Machines: The Human Element in AI

31:37 The Movement Towards a New Social Contract

34:10 Building a Foundation for Dignified Work

37:51 The Ethics of Work and Value in Society

42:05 Reimagining Capitalism and Community

45:53 The Future of Work and AI's Role

49:47 The Importance of Community and Connection

Resources to support people and families impacted by ICE raids. ⁠

Recorded during a wave of ICE raids in Los Angeles, this urgent episode asks what it means to truly belong in a country built on migration. Katie Smith and Beth Rudden open up about personal stakes, political theater, and the manufactured crises threatening immigrant families today.

From the roots of religious freedom to the metaphor of invasive species, they explore how narratives—about borders, safety, and identity—are shaped, distorted, and weaponized. This is a conversation about witnessing injustice, honoring complexity, and anchoring into the future we want to build.

With stories of community resilience, artistic resistance, and civic power, Beth and Katie challenge us to rethink ownership, accountability, and care.

🔑 Topics Covered:

• ICE raids in LA and the real-time impact on families and neighborhoods
• The role of the National Guard, state sovereignty, and political overreach
• Migration as a natural force, not a crisis
• *Artistic metaphors: seeds, invasive species, and stories as resistance
• Religion, freedom, and misunderstanding across political lines
• Psychological and social healing in post-colonial societies
• Local power: sheriffs, judges, and community-led safety
• Why paid organizers matter—and who actually benefits from unrest
• Redefining ownership as accountability
• Imagining belonging as the anchor for a just future

Artists mentioned:

• Maria Thereza Alves and her work ⁠Seeds of Change⁠
• Jenny Yurshansky and her work on the ⁠themes of what is to be a refugee⁠
• Patrisse Marie Khan-Cullors Brignac who leads work around ⁠Care not Cages⁠

📌 Key Takeaways:

• Migration is fundamental to life; borders are human inventions.
• Care must replace cages—at every level of society.
• Belonging is not a luxury; it's the condition for collective thriving.
• Local governance is where real power—and real accountability—lives.
• Artists, organizers, and everyday people are already building the future we need.

⏱️ Chapters (Timestamps):

• 00:00 ICE Raids and the Politics of Manufactured Crisis
• 06:00 The National Guard, Local Power, and Historical Echoes
• 12:00 Migration, Metaphor, and the Wisdom of Artists
• 18:00 Religion, Identity, and the Stories We Tell
• 25:00 Seeds, Borders, and the Absurdity of Lines
• 32:00 What Belonging Really Means
• 38:00 Digital Solidarity and the Arab Spring
• 44:00 Paid Organizers, Real Protest, and Who Benefits
• 50:00 Liberty Hill Foundation and Local Mutual Aid
• 52:00 Anchoring to a Future of Equity, Accountability, and Care

In our first guest episode, Beth and Katie are joined by Dr. Desmond Patton—renowned social worker, AI ethics leader, and founder of SAFELab—for a soul-stirring conversation on what’s ending, what’s beginning, and why joy is more than a feeling—it’s an intentional system.

From pioneering research on youth expression and gun violence to building JoyNet, a machine learning platform designed to surface joy in digital spaces, Desmond shares how community, nuance, and vulnerability can change the future of tech. Together, the trio explores why context matters in AI, how social media misreads grief as aggression, and what it means to decolonize data through trust.

This is a masterclass in human-centered design—one rooted in lived experience, radical listening, and the belief that joy and justice are not opposites.

🔑 Topics Covered:

• What’s ending: the era of joyless performance
• What’s beginning: joy as an intentional operating system
• The origin and mission of JoyNet
• Why traditional NLP tools misinterpret Black and Brown grief
• CASM: a 7-step contextual analysis system for social media
• Building tech with, not for, marginalized communities
• How AI systems get culture—and people—so wrong
• Scaling empathy without erasing depth
• Social media as a space of both trauma and healing
• Reimagining metrics, value, and thick data
• Storytelling, digital connection, and the slow power of joy

📌 Key Takeaways:

• Joy is not frivolous; it’s resilient, rooted, and revolutionary.
• AI systems must be designed with contextual nuance and cultural fluency—or they cause harm.
• Grief doesn’t look the same across cultures, and we need tech that understands that.
• Participatory research and lived experience are non-negotiable in building responsible AI.
• The movement toward healing, justice, and connection is growing—even if it’s quiet.

⏱️ Chapters (Timestamps):

00:00 What's Ending and Beginning: Joy as Operating System

03:00 JoyNet and the Science of Digital Uplift

06:00 When NLP Fails: Misreading Black Grief as Aggression

12:00 Introducing CASM: Contextual Analysis of Social Media

16:00 InterpretMe: A Tool for Training Ethical Annotation

20:00 Why Youth Voice and Lived Experience Must Lead

26:00 Collaborating with Tech Platforms for Change

30:00 The Case for Thick Data Over Scale

35:00 Polarization, Algorithms, and the Cost of Misunderstanding

40:00 The Quiet Power of Joy Posts and the Future We Can Choose

Recorded on Memorial Day, this deeply reflective episode honors the past and questions the future. Beth Rudden and Katie Smith explore what it means to serve, belong, and protect—whether on the battlefield or in everyday life. From family histories in the military to AI's rise as the next frontier of global power, they trace the parallels between war, technology, and community.

Together, they confront uncomfortable truths about who benefits from war—past and present—and ask: What kind of future are we building? What do we owe each other? And how do we come home to each other again, in neighborhoods, rituals, and stories?

🔑 Topics Covered:

• Memorial Day reflections and military family legacies
• The value of service—military, civil, and communal
• AI as the new military-industrial arms race
• Why we need diplomats, not just data scientists
• Block parties, belonging, and reclaiming public space
• Cultural resilience vs. propaganda
• Rethinking scale: small rituals and local libraries of knowledge
• Community-led AI models (like Māori language tech)
• The enduring power of storytelling and shared experience

📌 Key Takeaways:

• Service can take many forms, and every act of care matters.
• AI is rapidly replacing diplomacy in global strategy—raising urgent ethical questions.
• Community isn't optional; it's essential to human flourishing.
• Local rituals and shared space are more powerful than we remember.
• We must question who controls technology—and who it's truly for.

⏱️ Chapters (Timestamps):

• 00:00 Memorial Day and Military Family Stories
• 06:00 Service, Sacrifice, and the Politics of War
• 12:00 Block Parties, Community, and Shared Space
• 18:00 AI, Diplomacy, and Who Benefits from Tech
• 25:00 Culture as the Ultimate Export
• 31:00 Propaganda, Power, and AI’s Role in Global Control
• 38:00 Traveling, Teaching, and Building Empathy
• 45:00 Stories That Change Us—and Why They Matter

In this probing and philosophical episode of And We Feel Fine, Beth Rudden and Katie Smith unravel the myth of effective altruism. Starting with the well-known "drowning girl" parable, they trace the roots of utilitarian thinking and its influence on Silicon Valley billionaires and AI ethics. Through a mix of humor, critique, and care, they call out the harm of individualistic philanthropy, the false promise of "earning to give," and the moral sleight-of-hand in today's tech race.

Instead, they offer humanism—not as a perfect alternative, but as a path grounded in dignity, collaboration, and embodied belonging. This episode is a rallying cry for new stories, shared responsibility, and sacred scholarship.

🔑 Topics Covered:

• The parable of the drowning girl and the rise of effective altruism
• Utilitarianism vs. humanism: what's the real moral framework?
• Billionaire philanthropy, moral math, and systemic harm
• The hidden cost of AI: water, power, and planetary resources
• Collective care vs. the myth of the lone savior
• The case for consent, rituals, and shared decision-making
• Why we need a new parable—and more than one

📌 Key Takeaways:

• Effective altruism often cloaks power in moral math.
• Human beings thrive in collaboration, not competition.
• Ethics without context or consent fails the people it claims to serve.
• Parables shape belief—and we need better ones rooted in care.
• AI must be accountable to those it claims to serve, not just those who build it.

⏱️ Chapters (Timestamps):

• 00:00 The Parable of the Drowning Girl
• 02:30 Utilitarianism and Its Consequences
• 06:00 “Earn to Give” and Billionaire Logic
• 10:00 AI Arms Race and Hidden Costs
• 19:00 Collaboration Over Competition
• 27:00 Consent, Power, and Giving Circles
• 34:00 Religion, Ritual, and the Reclamation of Space
• 44:00 Humanism, Hope, and the Case for New Parables
• 54:00 Sacred Scholarship and Peer-Reviewed Progress