What would you do differently if you could live for 1,000 years? In this episode of Groove Jams, we’re joined by fan-favorite Annie Duke to dive headfirst into the wild possibilities of a much longer life. The conversation kicks off with a controversial babysitting prank that sparked Annie’s lifelong fear of death, leading to a lively debate about how immortality could reshape society. Would 80-year-old presidents be no big deal? Would archaeology become the most boring subject ever? Join us as we unravel ethical dilemmas, debate questionable life choices, and find out if Annie can finally conquer her fear of mortality.

Don’t wait 1,000 years to tune in—hit play now while it’s still relevant!

This week, we continue exploring jobs, careers, and callings with Jen Totsi-Kharas, co-author of Is Your Work Worth It? For a deeper dive into this topic, check out our conversation with Jen’s co-author, Christopher Michaelson, on last week’s episode!

We sit down with Jen to explore the complex nature of work and how it can be defined as a job, career, or calling, with a particular focus on the potential downsides people face when they try and pursue their “callings”. While having a strong calling can boost engagement and life satisfaction, it also has its risks, including over-commitment, burnout, and a disconnection from the practical realities of one’s career.

Discover who has stronger work satisfaction - orchestral musicians or prison guards, and explore how expectations and daily demands shape well-being across professions. Together with Jen, we discuss how calling can change over time and the importance of self-discovery in aligning work with personal values and aspirations. There is value in finding meaningful work, even if it’s not a perfect calling, and Jen helps us explore the need for a balanced approach that considers both passion and practicality in our career choices.

©2024 Behavioral Grooves

[0:00] Intro: Dream job or prison guard?

[4:44] Speed Round with Jen Totsi-Kharas

[10:17] Happiness in “callings” vs. “jobs”

[15:27] The benefits and downsides of callings

[29:46] The difference between callings and jobs

[34:42] The role of callings in different professions

[40:44] The importance of finding meaningful work

[46:37] Grooving session: understanding the nuances of work satisfaction

©2024 Behavioral Grooves

Jennifer Tosti-Kharas

Is Your Work Worth It?: How to Think About Meaningful Work

Zookeepers, Callings, and the Double-edged Sword of Deeply Meaningful Work

Indigo Girls Closer to Fine

Tori Amos Cornflake Girl (Live)

Is Your Job a Calling or a Burden?

This week, we jump into the deep and sometimes challenging question: what role does work play in a meaningful life? Christopher Michaelson, one of the co-authors of Is Your Work Worth It? joins us to explore the philosophical and practical aspects of how we view work—as a job, a career, or a calling—and the impacts each perspective can have on our sense of purpose and fulfillment. While a calling can give us profound motivation, Christopher warns that it can also lead to burnout and even exploitation.

One of the most poignant moments in our conversation reflects on research from 9/11, which reveals that for two-thirds of the victims, work was not a defining element in their life stories. This insight reminds us of the importance of balancing work with other meaningful aspects of life. Christopher also shares insights from his personal family history and invites us to redefine success beyond professional or financial achievements.

Together, we consider how our “90-year-old self” might view the decisions we make about work and purpose today, and how these choices impact our journey toward a balanced life. Join us as we dig into the importance of examining our relationship to work to ensure it truly aligns with our broader life goals and values.

©2024 Behavioral Grooves

[0:00] Intro

[4:11] Speed round

[12:32] Exploring the nature of work

[22:40] Is having “a calling” a bad thing?

[36:24] Redefining success

[48:30] Desert island music

[53:48] Grooving Session: Work-life balance and living in the moment

©2024 Behavioral Grooves

Is Your Work Worth It?: How to Think About Meaningful Work

Christopher Michaelson

9/11 Portraits of Grief Project

Phillip Glass “Prophecies”

Allison Russell “Nightflyer”

Boy Genius “Not Strong Enough

Has Behavioral Grooves turned into a political podcast?

Not really (ok, maybe kinda it has - but for just a few weeks, we promise ). With the 2024 election days away, however, it’s felt nearly unavoidable for many people, including us. Attending the Norms and Behavior Change Conference (NoBeC), titled, Democracy Under Threat, sparked some essential thoughts and insights that we feel compelled to share.

Democracy relies on fragile social norms that are under serious threat right now. From startling statistics about the rise of autocracies worldwide to the surge in misinformation, it’s clear that a renewed commitment to democratic norms is needed now more than ever. So, here’s a crucial question for all of us to consider: Is party loyalty more important than the stability of our democracy?

Join us to rethink democracy—not just as a system but as a collective responsibility – bound together by shared beliefs. Your voice matters, your vote is essential, and together, we can help fortify democracy. If you don’t have a plan for where and when you’re going to vote, put one together. Get a friend to vote with you. You may feel disenfranchised or fatigued or angry or sad…just make sure you vote. And put a happy spin on your voting experience: celebrate the fact that we can vote by baking an election cake (or election pie or even election cookies) to bring to the polls! Democracy is fragile, please treat it with respect.

©2024 Behavioral Grooves

Special Thanks to: Cristina Bicchieri, Kaushik Basu, Diana Mutz, Gretchen Helmke, Horacio Larreguy, Christoph Abels, Ryan Enos, Robert Talisse, Giulia Maimone, Erik Groenendyk, Nikos Nikiforkis, Cesar Nuñez, Karine Nyborg, Jan Voelkel and Ryan Enos for their participation in NoBeC and their fascinating research!

[0:08] Understanding Democracy and Social Norms

[3:07] The Fragility of Democracy

[9:34] Polarization and Media Influence

[17:43] The Role of Political Elites

[19:55] Gratitude and Closing Thoughts

©2024 Behavioral Grooves

Find Your Polling Place

Polarization Series

Center for Social Norms and Behavioral Dynamics

Cristina Bicchieri

Kaushik Basu

Diana Mutz

Gretchen Helmke

Horacio Larreguy

Christoph Abels

Ryan Enos

Robert Talisse

Giulia Maimone

Erik Groenendyk

Nikos Nikiforkis

Cesar Nuñez

Karine Nyborg

Jan Voelkel

A special message from Kurt and Tim, all the way from Philadelphia:

November 5th is fast approaching, and now, more than ever, participating in democracy matters. Casting your vote isn’t just a civic duty—it’s a way to find your groove in American democracy. Tune in to this short episode for practical advice and inspiration to make your vote count, and join in celebrating the great American experiment!

What if you could give the U.S. Constitution a makeover?

Ahead of the 2024 U.S. election, AJ Jacobs joins Kurt and Tim to dive into the lighter side of politics, taking a playful look at what really needs fixing in America’s founding documents (hint: it starts with grammar).

While the spelling of Pennsylvania is no longer up for debate, the trio tackles plenty of other things that could — and maybe should — be changed for the better. What does the 2nd Amendment really mean? Should cabinet members have veto power? Are we missing out on some much-needed retirement parties for Supreme Court justices? Tune in to Groove Jams for a lively conversation and share your thoughts!

After all, it’s a free country!

Want to watch along? Check out the video version on YouTube

Ahead of the 2024 US Election, Kurt and Tim sit down with bestselling author and serial experimenter AJ Jacobs to discuss his latest project, The Year of Living Constitutionally. AJ spent a year living life according to the principles of the U.S. Constitution, adopting 18th-century customs along the way. From wearing tricorn hats and writing with quill pens to exploring the deeper philosophical underpinnings of democracy, AJ brings history to life while reflecting on the balance between rights and responsibilities, a concept that feels more urgent than ever today.

AJ also shares his mission to revive one of America’s sweetest (and largely forgotten) traditions—Election Cakes! In the 1700s, Election Day was a festival of civic pride, complete with parades, music, and community-baked cakes shared at the polls. In true AJ fashion, he’s on a quest to bring this tradition back, reminding us that democracy can be both a serious and joyful act.

Throughout the episode, AJ, Kurt, and Tim dive into the importance of ‘epistemic humility’ - aka, the acknowledgment that we don’t have all the answers and must remain open to learning. From Benjamin Franklin’s introspection to modern-day challenges of misinformation, AJ challenges listeners to approach life and democracy with curiosity, gratitude, and a willingness to improve both ourselves and our society. So grab a slice of election cake (or pie!) and join us for this thought-provoking, timely conversation on what it means to live constitutionally.

Need help finding a voting location near you? Check here!

©2024 Behavioral Grooves

[0:00] Election day traditions

[4:25] Speed round with AJ Jacobs

[9:44] Living Colonially: What I learned

[18:56] Epistemic humility and political perspectives

[23:52] Constitutional originalism

[36:29] How do we frame the constitution?

[40:40] Election cakes and celebrating democracy

[48:52] Embracing experimentation in everyday life

[52:56] Grooving session: open-mindedness, civic duty, and cake recipes

©2024 Behavioral Grooves

Join our Facebook Group!

AJ’s Substack

The Year of Living Constitutionally

More about AJ

The History of Election Cakes

The US Constitution

Royal American Medley - Songs of the Revolutionary War

Yankee Doodle

Why do we avoid the very thing that could bring us more joy—connecting with others?

In this episode, behavioral scientist and human interaction expert Nick Epley returns to the podcast to help Kurt and Tim explore the paradox of social connection. Despite living in a time often described as a loneliness epidemic, many of us still choose to limit our social interactions and shy away from new experiences. While we’re hardwired to thrive on positive connections, anxiety and inaccurate assumptions often hold us back. Nick sheds light on why we consistently underestimate how enjoyable social interactions will be—and how this leads to missed opportunities for meaningful connection.

Drawing from his research at Chicago’s Mindworks facility, where people from all walks of life participate in behavioral experiments, Nick shares fascinating insights into our social nature. His team’s real-world studies have uncovered how our expectations and assumptions can prevent us from fully engaging in new social experiences.

Tune in to learn how our beliefs can shape our social lives and how curiosity and openness can transform any interaction into something rewarding. Nick offers practical advice on how behavioral science can help us lead more connected, fulfilling lives. And hey, next time you’re getting your morning coffee, say hi to the barista—you never know where that small interaction might lead!

©2024 Behavioral Grooves

[0:00] Intro: Connecting with strangers

[9:50] Nick Epley and Mindworks research facility

[23:16] Experiments at Mindworks

[30:55] Insights from social interaction experiments

[39:34] The role of expectations in social interactions

[47:01] How to create positive interactions

[51:18] Grooving session: Curiosity, compassion, and engaging with strangers

©2024 Behavioral Grooves

Mindworks

About Nick Epley

Mistakenly Seeking Solitude

Join our Facebook Group!