In this conversation, Marc Gafni, Ken Wilber, and Zak Stein discuss the relationship between desire and value. They explore different perspectives on desire, ranging from it being a degraded condition to it being a deed that can be controlled. They argue that desire is a condition and that clarifying desire is a way to honor its dignity. They also discuss the concept of value and its connection to prehension, emphasizing that value is both a product and a cause of prehension. They introduce the term 'Eros value' to describe the interplay between desire and value. The conversation concludes with a discussion on the need for a new language and grammar of value.

00:00 Exploring the Concept of Value

04:40 The Role of Holons and Desire

09:01 Chemistry as the Music of Desire

12:43 The Periodic Table of Desire Value

17:23 Understanding Will and Desire

23:00 The Dignity of Desire

31:26 Desire as a Condition

36:18 Value as a Product and Cause of Prehension

45:27 Introducing Eros Value

49:58 The Need for a New Language and Grammar of Value

The conversation explores the concept of scripts of desire and their role in lineage and science. The name of God is seen as the fundamental structure of reality, and in the lineage of Solomon, it is a four-letter word that means desire. The song of Solomon is a script of desire that discloses value and generates rights. In science, holons are seen as scripts of desire, and each level of wholeness represents a new value and an aspirational script of desire. The conversation also touches on the influence of scripts of desire in identity formation and the impact of advertising on shaping scripts of desire.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction

01:28 The Name of God: A Script of Desire

03:07 The Song of Solomon: A Script of Desire that Discloses Value

11:59 Holons in Science: Scripts of Desire and Wholeness

18:00 Scripts of Desire and Identity Formation

20:43 The Influence of Advertising on Scripts of Desire

25:07 Conclusion

The conversation explores the concept of value and its relationship to Eros. It delves into the distinction between Eros as a quality of being and a quality of becoming. The discussion highlights the hijacking of Eros as a feminine quality and emphasizes that Eros is both feminine and masculine. The conversation also touches on the involutionary given of value and its role in cosmic evolution. It explores the idea that value is the space in which everything arises and that desire discloses value. The ontology of story is also discussed, with the understanding that all stories are scripts of desire and value.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Setting the Context

02:46 Eros as a Quality of Being and Becoming

05:02 The Space of Value

08:46 The Quality of Irreducible Rightness

10:18 The Aspirational Ought

13:22 Value as an Intrinsic Ought