How do you stay close to someone whose pain you can’t fix, whose questions you can’t answer? In this episode, Kate sits down with her dear friend, the Rev. Dr. Sam Wells, a longtime advocate of “being with,” a theology that goes beyond advice and into the sacred space of simply staying. Sam–vicar at London’s St.-Martin-in-the-Fields, an astonishingly wise thinker, and one of Kate’s favorite people on Earth–invites us into a deeper courage: to show up without trying to tidy things up.

In this beautifully honest conversation, Kate and Sam talk about:

1. Why love can be so hard

2. What it means to let go of the need to “help”

3. The surprising beauty of just… showing up.

For everyone exhausted by easy answers, this episode is a hand to hold in the dark.

Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.

Follow Kate on Instagram, Facebook, or X (formerly known as Twitter)—@katecbowler. Links to social pages and more available at linktr.ee/katecbowler.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

There are some realities we can never get over. And yet, we keep living. How do we do that well? Wilma Derksen writes and speaks on the topics of victimization and criminal justice. Her wisdom is hardwon. In the mid-80s, Wilma’s daughter, Candace, was murdered. Their family’s response to this tragedy has inspired so many people…and you’ll soon see why.

In this conversation, Kate and Wilma discuss:

1. How we live with the things we cannot change

2. What does forgiveness look like in practice

3. How to start forgiving yourself

If you liked this episode, you might also like:

• Malcolm Gladwell on whether people can change

• Jerry Sittser on reflecting on tragedy decades later

CW: murder of a child

Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.

Follow Kate on Instagram, Facebook, or X (formerly known as Twitter)—@katecbowler. Links to social pages and more available at linktr.ee/katecbowler.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This week we're introducing you to a show we love called A Slight Change of Plans with Dr. Maya Shankar. Kate was actually a guest on the show, where she joined to talk about how her entire belief system was thrown into question when she was diagnosed with Stage IV cancer at age 35.

If you want to hear more conversations like this one, listen to A Slight Change of Plans wherever you get your podcasts. Plus, the show has new episodes coming on November 11.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

How do we stay hopeful in the face of despair and disillusionment—especially when politics threaten to tear us in two? Kate speaks with Parker Palmer, a writer, teacher, and activist. As you’ll hear, he has gone through seasons of deep clinical depression, and has hard-won wisdom to share with us on how to survive, how to regain a sense of agency, how to remain hopeful despite it all.

In this episode, Kate and Parker discuss:

1. finding agency in the midst of depression and despair (including his trick of redefining achievement)

2. why it is important to recalibrate our sense of reality—especially in the face of 24-hour news cycles and social media algorithms

3. how a broken heart can either shatter or break open into a larger, more compassionate way of being

So on a day like today when we all might be thinking about the state of our nation or the state of our world or the realities at stake for our families and friends (....or perhaps, more tempted to keep our head in the sand to just make it through Thanksgiving), might we pull up close and listen to what Parker has to teach us about how to keep our hearts soft and remain hopeful, still.

If you liked this episode, you’ll also love:

• Sharon McMahon on the small differences we can make

• Will Willimon on aging into a new vocation

Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.

Follow Kate on Instagram, Facebook, or X (formerly known as Twitter)—@katecbowler. Links to social pages and more available at linktr.ee/katecbowler.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

We need more room to be honest about what it costs when people or institutions fail us. Today's conversation is with Lord Charles Spencer, the 9th Earl Spencer. You might also know him as Princess Diana's brother. His latest book, A Very Private School, is a courageous and beautifully written memoir about his time in an abusive English boarding school that was shrouded in secrets, abuse, and cruelty. While his circumstances may be unlike something you’ve experienced, Charles speaks so candidly and tenderly about his painful childhood and what it has cost him and others too.

In this conversation, Kate and Charles discuss:

• the challenge and catharsis of writing about personal trauma

• the casual cruelty Charles and his peers endured

• what happens when our innocence is stolen from us at a young age

• what healing looks like 50 years later

If you liked this conversation, might also like:

• Rachel Denhollender on getting justice you deserve

• Tara Westover on how our parents’ best might still not be enough

Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.

Follow Kate on Instagram, Facebook, or X (formerly known as Twitter)—@katecbowler. Links to social pages and more available at linktr.ee/katecbowler.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In every deep relationship, there comes a point where we are asked to give up something of ourselves or change in ways we never anticipated. Who will this make me? What will this love cost? Tembi Locke fell in love with an Italian chef named Saro when she was studying abroad in Italy during college. Their romance was a story for the big screen. (Quite literally. One starring Zoe Saldana.)

A rare illness upended it all. Tembi spent ten years as Saro’s caregiver before he died. In her grief, Tembi took their young daughter back to Sicily to see what of her husband she could find there—in his culture, in his food, and with his family.

In this conversation, Kate and Tembi discuss:

• becoming the architect of your life

• the effects of long-term caregiving (both the beauty and the cost)

• who grief makes us

If you liked this episode, you’ll also love:

• Katherine and Jay Wolf on what caregiving costs us

• Thomas Lynch on how we become who we miss

• John Swinton on living at the speed of love

Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.

Follow Kate on Instagram, Facebook, or X (formerly known as Twitter)—@katecbowler. Links to social pages and more available at linktr.ee/katecbowler.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What if you started thinking really concretely about small, hard choices? That’s exactly what palliative care physicians do every day. They help us think about what we really want—knowing that we have limited time and limited resources. You’re going to love our guest today, Dr. Kathryn Mannix, palliative care physician and cognitive behavioral therapist. She offers practical steps to help people and their loved ones make sense of what limited choices they have, navigate any pain and fear they may experience, and gives the most comforting speech on what the end of a life looks like that we’ve ever heard. (I promise this is not scary at all. It is perfect.)

In this conversation, Kate and Kathryn discuss:

• Why we want to keep a lid on the scary things of life

• What even is palliative care

• How palliative care-type thinking can help us live better

• What happens to hope when facing end of life

This is a masterclass in walking right up to the edge with people, in the most gentle, compassionate way.

If you liked this episode, you’ll also love:

• Sunita Puri on living in uncertainty

• Rev. Tom Long on the importance of the rituals for death and dying

Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.

Follow Kate on Instagram, Facebook, or X (formerly known as Twitter)—@katecbowler. Links to social pages and more available at linktr.ee/katecbowler.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Sometimes you really need someone to believe that you are good. Unshakably good. Over 30 years ago, Father Greg Boyle started working with gang members in Los Angeles through Homeboy Industries. The lessons that he learns from whom he calls “homies” are contagious. Every day, they teach him about what it means to heal, to belong to one another, to practice compassion, and to relearn how to feel good again to God and others. These are just some of the transcendent truths that he has to share with us today.

In this conversation, Kate and Greg discuss:

• what it means to see unshakable goodness in others

• what it would mean for our carceral system if we sought to heal instead of punish

• how can we have a greater capacity for joy

If you liked this episode, you’ll also love:

• Bryan Stevenson on rethinking what “justice” means

• Francis Collins on treating people kindly and with love

• Nicholas Kristof on hope as a muscle

Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.

Follow Kate on Instagram, Facebook, or X (formerly known as Twitter)—@katecbowler. Links to social pages and more available at linktr.ee/katecbowler.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.