Good Fire Podcast by Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew Kristoff

Stories of Indigenous fire stewardship, cultural and social empowerment and environmental integrity

Episode highlight

Join Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew Kristoff as they give a sneak peek at what to expect in Good Fire’s third season.

Resources

Canada’s record-breaking wildfires in 2023: A fiery wake-up call

Intentional Fire Podcast by Vikki Preston

Sponsors

The Canadian Partnership for Wildland Fire Science

Quotes

12.20 - 12.35: “We can’t change the weather… and we can’t change the climate at the moment, but there are things that we can do and one of those is changing the fuel that’s available to burn and the vegetation that you can burn… and one of the ways to do that is through good fire.”

Takeaways

Women are the backbone of good fire (01.36)

Amy wants to focus the third season of the Good Fire podcast on matriarchs. After attending an Indigenous Women’s fire training event in the USA, she was inspired to see 30 women come together from different First Nations to deliberate how fire affects their communities. An Elder shared with her that the women in a community direct the men to go out and burn.

Burns, burning and burnout (04.56)

Amy is a Research Scientist with the Canadian Forest Service but has recently been on secondment with Parks Canada as an Indigenous Fire Specialist. This year has seen unprecedented fires across Canada. Canada has depended on help from other countries, and firefighters are feeling burnt out.

15.2 million hectares in Canada burnt this year (08.28)

Amy hopes that practicing good fire will alleviate the strain on firefighting and reduce their risk on the job. She highlighted that years of fire exclusion have led to runaway wildfires.

An opportunity for a reset (13.17)

Amy highlights that even though fires were frequent before this land was colonized, tree rings indicate they were not as intense as they are now. Elder Joe Gilchrist shared with Amy that these wildfires are a good opportunity to reset overgrown forests for cultural burning.

Reducing the requirement of resilience (18.19)

Amy praises how the Chief and Council Little Red River Cree Nation and the community of Fox Lake have responded to the fires by building homes and supporting community members. However, she is saddened by the resilience they have had to show and hopes to see progress in external fire management.

Guest wish list (23.20)

Amy hopes to have Vikki Preston on the podcast, but her community is also impacted by the fire. Her podcast, Intentional Fire invites guests from Vikki’s Nation to talk about how they use good fire.

Indigenous stewardship (24.46)

Amy believes that Indigenous knowledge keepers needn’t seek permission to perform cultural burning on their lands. She pushes for policies and regulations to be re-examined so that land can be cared for in a way that is in line with Indigenous knowledge.

Good Fire Podcast by Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew Kristoff

Stories of Indigenous fire stewardship, cultural empowerment and environmental integrity

The Abundance Will Be Forever with Victor Steffensen and Ado Webster

Episode highlight

In this podcast, Victor Steffensen and Ado Webster reflect on their experiences as Indigenous fire-keepers.

Resources

Fire Country: How Indigenous Fire Management Could Help Save Australia by Victor Steffensen

Victor and Ado’s Bios

Looking After Country with Fire: Aboriginal Burning Knowledge With Uncle Kuu

Great Land by Mulong

Sponsors

The Canadian Partnership for Wildland Fire Science

Support from:

●       California Indian Water Commission

●       Firesticks Alliance Indigenous Corporation

Quotes

10.52 - 10.56: “We’re not governed by anyone but ourselves and by our culture and by our country.”

Takeaways

Rediscovering culture, discovering oneself (3.55)

Ado has recently begun working with Firesticks in the capacity of an employee, and loves working in an Aboriginal cultural environment where “the knowledge is safe, the sharing is safe and people are safe”.

For the landscape and the people (9.00)

Ado thrives on the cultural exchange that takes place between Nations as part of his work now, something colonization deprived his community of. He is passionate about helping children access culture freely.

Work that heals (14.40)

Victor notes that working with the country helps liberate Aboriginal peoples from stereotypes that they are not hardworking. Work that heals the land for the future inspires youth to do the right thing to enhance their connection with the land.

“Climate change is mother nature telling us to change” (19.17)

Victor laments that the negative messaging in the media makes us feel helpless against climate change. He brings attention to the disasters humans have lived through, and that this can also be salvaged by “doing the good work”.

When you care for the country, it cares back (28.23)

Ado reassures that cultural burning is safe, which is why many go barefoot for a cultural burn. He feels a sense of oneness with all inhabitants of the land, and disagrees with preferential protective equipment for humans but not for the other animals.

Fire, language and country (33.11)

Ado narrates how Victor demonstrated to Ado’s Nation, his knowledge of the land that applies across different territories. Victor adds that landscapes have many similarities in values, and bringing the country back is the missing piece in reviving cultural knowledge. 

Let us do it our way (38.48)

Ado speaks about the National Indigenous Fire Workshop they conducted for nations across Australia, where they did a cultural burn which lasted 13 days. Not having burned due to colonization has changed the landscape, and is causing sickness in the forests. 

The whole world gets affected (47.33)

Ado says that knowledge opens up minds with the truth but it makes it more difficult to tolerate the wrong things being done. Everyone was impacted by the large bushfires in Australia, and he feels strongly about people experiencing the benefits of cultural burning.

Send in your comments and feedback to the hosts of this podcast: amy.christianson@pc.gc.ca and yourforestpodcast@gmail.com.

Episode highlight

In this podcast, Victor Steffenson and Ado Webster talk about cultural burning in Australia and the work Firesticks is doing to promote it.

Resources

Fire Country: How Indigenous Fire Management Could Help Save Australia by Victor Steffensen

Looking After Country with Fire: Aboriginal Burning Knowledge With Uncle Kuu

by Victor and Sandra Steffensen

Cool Burning

Sponsors

The Canadian Partnership for Wildland Fire Science

Support from:

● California Indian Water Commission

● Firesticks Alliance Indigenous Corporation

Quotes

17.02 - 17.09: “Fear is… one of the biggest problems… in the world today and… a lot of that comes from ignorance.”

Takeaways

Ado and Victor (6.10)

Adrian, known as Ado, was born in Naora (Nowra) and considers himself fortunate to have grown up in his community and culture. Victor, a descendant of the Tagalaka clan from North Queensland, is the Lead Fire Practitioner at Firesticks, a filmmaker, musician and author.

Baby steps to progress (9.14)

Victor wrote a children’s book as a way of getting back to the arts using storytelling to reactivate culture and landscape connections and change society while having fun.

Listen to the country (16.58)

Victor finds it alarming that people fear fire, but takes solace in Indigenous knowledge, which focuses on the right way of doing things and provides a positive solution. Ado’s father realized that forests were deteriorating because Indigenous peoples had not been allowed to manage them.

“Learning not through science, but through spirit” (24.10)

Ado has learnt from his Elders about nature and realizes that this knowledge is only recently being discovered by non-Indigenous people.

“Fire is good for us as people” (33.40)

Victor notes that the insights of the Indigenous cultures are shifting the culture of the country as a whole, evolving into a nature-based one, where people can move from fear of fire to a connection to the land.

Fire and sustainability (39.50)

Victor and his team are working on creating a training model leading to a certified diploma to factor in lived experience for those who can demonstrate and manage the work practically.

“We need to work together” (50.24)

Victor believes that the work they have been doing in education to further cultural, environmental and economic development has been supported by Mother Nature. It has also made the country take notice of the work the Aboriginal peoples are doing, and recognize the need to support this work.

“It’s all about doing the right thing” (54.43)

Victor recommends being inclusive, making people comfortable and respecting them and their place to work together towards sustainability. He urges people to take action towards nature, and not be limited by barriers of time or money.

Send in your comments and feedback to the hosts of this podcast via email: amy.christianson@pc.gc.ca and yourforestpodcast@gmail.com.

Good Fire Podcast by Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew Kristoff

Stories of Indigenous fire stewardship, cultural and social empowerment, and environmental integrity

Good Fire In Guyana with Kayla de Freitas and Nicholas Cyril

Episode highlight

In this episode, Kayla and Nicholas talk about the cultural burning practices in Guyana.

Resources

SRDC

Kayla De-Freitas

Sponsors

The Canadian Partnership for Wildland Fire Science

Support from:

●       California Indian Water Commission

●       Firesticks Alliance Indigenous Corporation

Quotes

41.54 - 42.04: “So much of that knowledge about fire and fire use and farming, hunting, is learned by doing and by living there and living that life.”

Takeaways

Fire since time immemorial (04.02)

Nicholas has worked for 10 years at SRDC as a part-time researcher. He explains that fire in his territory has always been used and continues to be used for various reasons.

The changing face of fire (10.55)

Kayla’s research focus is the changing practices of Indigenous fire management and local fire governance.

Timeless wisdom, current realities (13.17)

Kayla describes who was interviewed for her research study and the regional fire management plan.

Indigenous land rights (17.17)

Nicholas notes that Indigenous peoples are allowed to burn in the villages. Kayla adds that Indigenous communities can make their own rules concerning resource governance.

Towards the creation of a fire policy (19.35)

The Indigenous communities in South Rupununi are working to create a local fire policy appropriate to their landscape.

Burning season (23.46)

Kayla highlights the seasonal fire calendar that the district council uses and a collection of interview responses on putting fire on the landscape.

Beyond fire (25.53)

Kayla shares how enriching it has been to work with Indigenous communities alongside Nicholas, learning about the landscape, experiencing hospitality and developing connections.

Bringing fire back (33.46)

Nicholas mentions how management of fire is changing in the communities to a direct style where the council makes decisions for the community.

Valuing Indigenous knowledge (35.52)

Nicholas speaks about how people are moving away from the traditional way of life. Kayla comments on how Indigenous knowledge was erased by settlers, but is being reclaimed.

Following in the ancestor’s footsteps (41.40)

Nicholas delineates the process of a burn, when traditional knowledge is relied upon. Kayla laments that the government only pays lip service to Indigenous knowledge and practices. 

The sum of the parts (49.44)

Kayla narrates how fire management plans are being updated in consultation with Indigenous groups, and how opt-in arrangements work for their lands.

Looking ahead (54.25)

Nicholas says the Indigenous communities are mindful of burning in the right seasons and work with nature’s cycles. He describes how burning assists animals in breeding.

Preventing brain drain (1.04.57)

Kayla mentions that the SRDC is creating opportunities for trained Guyanese people to stay in the country and serve the community. Nicholas’ work with SRDC is inspired by the desire to keep Indigenous knowledge alive and affirm Indigenous land rights.

Good Fire Podcast by Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew Kristoff

Stories of Indigenous fire stewardship, cultural and social empowerment, and environmental integrity

Early Career Panel

Episode highlight

This episode is a recording of a session at the IAWF Fire & Climate conference in Pasadena CA, featuring early career researchers who are re-kindling cultural burning.

Resources

International Association of Wildland Fire

Sponsors

The Canadian Partnership for Wildland Fire Science

Support from:

●       California Indian Water Commission

●       Firesticks Alliance Indigenous Corporation

Quotes

16.25 - 16.29: “Indigenous people don’t need us to speak on their behalf, they can speak on their own behalf.”

Takeaways

“In a good way” (05.02)

Melinda Adams, San Carlos Apache Tribal member, and PhD candidate at UC Davis, shares how agency representatives took a step away from fire suppression in one of the first CalFire cultural fire workshops at Cache Creek Conservancy in Woodland, CA.

The benefits of cultural fire (06.42)

Melinda narrates how the burn was concentrated on restoring tule, an ecologically and culturally significant plant. This highlights how cultural fire is important for long-term carbon storage, water holding potential and cultural reunification.

Collaboration, consultation and consent (07.57)

Melinda hopes for  burning to take place with Indigenous peoples, to undo the impacts of colonialism and unburden future generations from climate change.

Good relations (11.11)

Carly Dominguez is of Indigenous Mexican heritage. Her work with cultural fire is inspired by her desire to improve water health.

Fire has always been good (13.30)

Carly is being trained through the Indigenous cultural burn network.

“Fire has a special place in my heart” (17.41)

Deniss Martinez is a Ph.D. candidate at UC Davis. Learning from local Indigenous communities helped her reconnect with her Indigenous roots and relearn fire.

Getting stuff done (19.54)

William Madrigal Jr., or Will, is associated with Climate Science Alliance, a nonprofit based in San Diego that supports and collaborates with Indigenous tribes in addressing climate change disparities.

Facing climate change (22.19)

Nina Fontana is a postdoctoral researcher at the University of California, Davis in collaboration with the USGS Southwest Climate Adaptation Science Center.

Relationships over acres (26.10)

Deniss observes that when relationships are built and in place, more equitable decision-making takes place during a crisis.

Trust takes time (30.57)

Carly suggests approaching practices and policies with openness and Nina advises including the community in all aspects of the project from the beginning.

Researching back to life (35.59)

Melinda notes that Indigenous peoples conducting research helps move their initiatives and collaborations forward. She is excited about young people getting involved in burning and the openness of other researchers to this learning.

“We have to have hope” (40.16)

As a native person whose ancestors survived so much, Melinda believes it is her duty to lead with hope.

“Connection brings me hope” (43.22)

Understanding the traditional way humans can fulfil our responsibilities to the following seven generations gives Will hope for a better future. Nina finds hope in hearing about species coming back to landscapes.

Good Fire Podcast by Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew Kristoff

Stories of Indigenous fire stewardship, cultural empowerment and environmental integrity

Update: Cultural Fire in California with Don Hankins

Episode highlight

In this podcast, Don Hankins talks about new developments around cultural burning in California and his hopes for the future.

Resources

California’s Strategic Plan for Expanding the Use of Beneficial Fire

Sponsors

The Canadian Partnership for Wildland Fire Science

Support from:

●       California Indian Water Commission

●       Firesticks Alliance Indigenous Corporation

Quotes

24.52 - 24.53: “We definitely have to connect culture to fire.”

Takeaways

Cultural torch bearers (01.52)

Don is Plains Miwok from the central valley of California’s Sacramento-San Joaquin Delta. He believes that due to the wildfires in California, initiatives are taking place that recognize the place of Indigenous fire.

Revitalizing cultural fire (4.37)

Various policy barriers - access to land and funding and permission to burn using traditional laws - are being addressed through the creation of a tribally chartered non-profit organization to support learning, advance policy efforts and act as a refunding and redistribution entity.

Building and empowering the youth (07.16)

Don looks to the youth to carry Indigenous knowledge of fire into the future and seeks young people from his Nation to mentor. Knowledge holders training the youth to understand the cultural reasons for burning, read the landscape and maintain culture will enable the youth to step into decision-making roles and policy arenas.

Enabling cultural burning (11.49)

Don speaks about California Bill SB 332 which allows certified burn bosses and cultural burners to burn, and that if they meet certain conditions, they shall not be liable for any fire suppression or other costs otherwise recoverable for a burn.

Spreading like good fire (16.05)

Don also speaks about California Bill AB 642 which primarily codifies the definitions of cultural fire and incentivizes agencies to work with cultural burners to implement plans and enable Indigenous stewardship.

Cultural fire progress (20.21)

Don lists some challenges to advancing cultural fire - the criteria for declaring someone trained and the sensitivities around tribal sovereignty for that declaration. If someone is not exposed to cultural fire training, errors in the process could occur.

Learning from fire (23.42)

Don shares that if you are gentle with fire and approach it in a good way, you can learn from it, or you can learn the lessons the hard way. Thinking about the reasons for burning helps look for learning opportunities in burning. Don’s approach to burning changes according to the requirement, but praying and acknowledging the land is always a part of it.

Send in your comments and feedback to the hosts of this podcast via email: amy.christianson@pc.gc.ca and yourforestpodcast@gmail.com.

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Good Fire Podcast by Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew Kristoff

Stories of Indigenous fire stewardship, cultural and social empowerment, and environmental integrity

Episode highlight

In this episode, Ntando Nondo talks about Indigenous land stewardship and fire management practices in Zimbabwe.

Resources

Ntando Nondo’s Profile

Southern Africa Fire Network (SAFNET)

Sponsors

The Canadian Partnership for Wildland Fire Science

Support from:

●       California Indian Water Commission

●       Firesticks Alliance Indigenous Corporation

Quotes

42.08 - 42.16: “If there is a fire, you better use the little water you have to save your property.”

Takeaways

Fire management strategies (05.49)

Ntando shares that the fire management plan involves protecting the ecological regions depending on the amount of rainfall received, the wildlife living in the region and the kind of farming done there. 

The many uses and sources of fire (12.45)

For Indigenous peoples, fire is the primary source of energy and a cultural entity. Wildland fires can be started by a locomotive, electrical faults, or lightning.

Good fire (19.30)

Ntando explains that previously, communities were in charge of fire management on their own lands but fire now has regulations associated with it. They do their burning in designated areas ahead of the fire season, to reduce the fuel available to burn and reduce fire intensity.

Indigenous partnership with the government (25.58)

The 15+ Indigenous groups in Zimbabwe manage their lands on a day-to-day basis in consultation with the government.

Coming together to avert disasters (33.39)

Zimbabwe is a member of the Southern Africa Fire Network (SAFNET), a voluntary organization that shares strategies on fire management and developments across borders using remote sensing to alert neighbouring countries.

Beating the fires (39.26)

Ntando describes a fire beater as a wooden stick of 1.5m to 2m with a 40 X 60 cm piece of rubber on one end used to beat the fire grounds to remove oxygen from the fire. They also use sprayers, sprinklers and other tools to disperse chemicals and water.

Prepare for the worst, expect the best (43.29)

Ntando recalls the 2010 fire in the Midlands province lasted for 3 days, killing 7 elephants and several donkeys and domesticated animals. Fire breaks allow for effective demarcation of lands and timely fire management before the entire community is affected.

Fire then and now (47.01)

Ntando observes that fire used for indoor purposes like cooking or cultural ceremonies continues, but fire outside the home or in agriculture is restricted, especially during Zimbabwe’s fire season from 31st July to 31st October. He envisions consulting with Indigenous communities on fire management so that the fire can continue to play a central role in their culture.

The future of fire (55.06)

Satellite technology and remote sensing can be helpful in presenting a graphical summary of the success of fire management plans and inform further refinements to the plan.

Send in your comments and feedback to the hosts of this podcast via email: amy.christianson@pc.gc.ca and yourforestpodcast@gmail.com.

Good Fire Podcast by Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew Kristoff

Stories of Indigenous fire stewardship, cultural empowerment and environmental integrity

Cultural Safety with Joe Gilchrist and Natasha Caverley

Episode highlight

In this podcast, Joe Gilchrist and Natasha Caverley talk about how Indigenous and Western ways of knowing can come together to bring cultural burning back on the land a study exploring cultural safety of Indigenous wildland firefighters in Canada.

Resources

Joe Gilchrist describes how fire has changed the landscape

Natasha Caverley of Turtle Island Consulting

Giving Voice to Cultural Safety of Indigenous Wildland Firefighters in Canada

Revitalizing Cultural Burning

Sponsors

The Canadian Partnership for Wildland Fire Science

Support from:

●       California Indian Water Commission

●       Firesticks Alliance Indigenous Corporation

Takeaways

Sparking passion (04.16)

Joe began firefighting at age 15 and became a squad boss in 1991 in Merritt. He narrates the travels and training they did, and how his experience firefighting and cultural burning for plant health helped him.

Glowing embers (11.55)

Natasha is the President of Turtle Island Consulting and was part of a specialized team funded by the BC Ministry of Forests to work with First Nations that were dealing with the mountain pine beetle infestation.

Two-eyed seeing approach (18.28)

Joe outlines the wages and structure of the crews involved in firefighting, as well as the demanding schedules of firefighters. Natasha’s work has been to formally capture such anecdotes from a national perspective.

Cultural safety (31.37)

Joe wants to share his experience and lessons learned as a firefighter but has always been a doer more than a talker. Natasha realized that Indigenous peoples do not feel safe accessing quality services in wildland firefighting as well.

Systemic racism (41.06)

Joe looks back at the systemic racism he faced as a firefighter and recounts instances when the Indigenous firefighters were tested through difficult tasks and their firefighting style was mocked.

The best way to work is to have fun (50.20)

Joe was diagnosed with PTSD in 1994 from the exhaustion of always having to be available or on standby as a firefighter. He informs that PTSD can affect anyone, can be hard to fight on one’s own, and warrants professional help, as difficult as it is to ask for.

Wildland firefighting as a career choice (01.05.05)

Joe believes knowledge of the land, its inhabitants, the wind patterns on the land, and the way fire burns through it are important requirements to be a firefighter. He is working with some universities to add an Indigenous perspective to the learning.

Cultural burning needs to come back (1.14.30)

Natasha is working with Amy in Saskatchewan to curate promising practices to bring fire back on the land by interviewing Elders and fire-keepers. Joe is inspired to continue making connections with knowledge keepers and Elders and share his knowledge in firefighting with others.

Send in your comments and feedback to the hosts of this podcast via email: amy.christianson@pc.gc.ca and yourforestpodcast@gmail.com.