“Everybody in the world, including ourselves, thought it was insurmountable.” - Roelf Meyer

Just over 30 years ago, South Africa was at a tipping point. Nelson Mandela and his party, the African National Congress, were in tense negotiations with the ruling National Party to bring an end to the brutal Apartheid system. In 1994, the two sides emerged with a new constitution that established equal rights for all citizens, black and white, and the country held its first democratic election.

But that transformation was not easy. South Africa came close to civil war multiple times during those negotiations. Extremists on both sides carried out bombings, assassinations, and large scale attacks. In the four years between Mandela’s release from prison and the first democratic elections, more than 20,000 people – men, women, and children – died in the violence.

Our guests this episode sat across that negotiating table from one another. Mohammed Bhabha was a leading activist in the ANC freedom struggle. During Apartheid, he was a lawyer who defended ANC members, and he went on to serve in parliament under Mandela. Roelf Meyer served in parliament and held top positions in the Apartheid government. Though they started as enemies, the hard-won trust they built helped shape the future of their country.

While South Africa isn’t perfect, Roelf and Mohammed bring powerful lessons that Americans can apply to find common ground, re-humanize the “other” and safeguard democracy.

Music by Blue Dot Sessions, Erik Lindgren, Gavin Luke, Martin Landh, Hampus Naeselius

How Do We Get Through This? is hosted by Tim Phillips, Founder and CEO of Beyond Conflict. It's produced and edited by Andrea Muraskin, with additional editing by Ashley-Milne Tyte. We have marketing support from Summer Heidish.

Connect with us at Beyond Conflict

Our website

LinkedIn

X/Twitter

Instagram

Our book