Emily and Richard have another guest on the podcast, and this time it's the fantastic Clare Salters, who tells us all about her career, which she has spent in the public and voluntary sectors. We hear what it's like to work with people and on issues that make the news and how that's not easily compatible with family life.

Clare also has some important observations on how middle-aged women are perceived in the workplace and she and Emily talk about how it's harder in general for women to have a voice at work (sometimes literally).

It's a fascinating, funny and moving discussion about a career, with a happy ending as Clare discusses the fulfilment she has found in a different set of roles.

You can find us on our website: https://ifhurtnot.work

Our LinkedIn page is: linkedin.com/company/ifhurtnotwork

Twitter: @IfHurtNotWork

Instagram: ifitshurtingitsnotworking

Email: ifhurtnotwork@gmail.com

And finally we have the space in our show notes to discuss the fantastic cover art that was designed for us by Bea Garrido. She's a really talented artist, who listened to what we wanted to do with the podcast and then stepped us through a series of concepts until we found the one we really liked. Thanks Bea. You can find her on Twitter at: @BeaGarridoArt