Ben Reason, one of the early pioneers of Service Design and co-founder of the boundary pushing agency Livework joins Martin and Brian for a thoughtful discussion on navigating the liminal spaces and the systemic changes that are shaping our world as we know it. Ben's thought-leadership on designing in the Anthropocene was the stimulus for recording this conversation but it builds on the work of many other thinkers in this space.We challenge the allure of scale, examining the benefits of diversity and decentralization over a singular homogeneous approach to moving society forward. Ben references the current state of disruption - such as Florida's housing crisis and California's recurring wildfires - and the role of technology in scaling alternative systems while we also explore the advantages of devolved and decentralised power highlighting the political and human factors that drive change and the current systems that may stifle it.The conversation also spotlights the evolution of design and its profound impact on companies today. From exploring the digital mindset and the emergence of in-house design to the geopolitical influences that shape design practices, our conversation covers an array of topics - all of which are linked when you zoom out from the detail. Finally, we investigate the challenges of designing in a more life-centered way and how design can serve as an instrument in addressing these challenges. We hope you enjoy this reflective conversation with Ben and find some useful and interesting jumping off points for your own exploration of Liminal thinking.

Livework: https://liveworkstudio.com/

Ben on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/breasy/

Design for the Anthropocene:https://www.slideshare.net/Livework/design-for-the-anthropocene-252901562

Being LiminalIs a podcast about the changing nature of Leadership in Business Transformation. Brian and Martin explore the mindset and skills currently missing in Business Leadership of Transformation that when present contribute to the 30% success rate of Large-Scale Business Transformation and Change.The podcast explores Systems and Design Thinking as a necessary approach to leading through the Liminal State that is a Transformation programme. Each episode is either a research interview with a Guest Expert or a working discussion session between the hosts Martin Dowson and Brian Hoadely as they develop the content that will form their new book: Being Liminal. This podcast is your opportunity to eavesdrop on their research and writing process.

Podcast Website: www.beingliminal.com

Apple:https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/being-liminal/id1690994247

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7aJYpbWWZ85SBt27pfUgDo

Martin Dowson on LinkedIn

Brian Hoadley on LinkedIn

In this episode Brian and Martin are in conversation with Bethany Jarroussié. Bethany is on the design leadership team at BP and her career as a design leader has seen her take on distinctly non-design type activities. It's a conversation that covers, how, if we're honest about the nature of transformation, it can be very unpredictable, and with that comes a need to create psychological safety for teams. There are great examples of leaders who created the environments in which it's okay to learn while doing with the inevitable discomfort and at times crashes that can come with this. You'll hear about Bethany's own journey into the world of work, which she describes as not traditional. She reflects on how that has had an impact on her as a leader and her leadership style, and her support for and the importance of social mobility. For those of you are following along with other episodes, you'll find a connection here between some of what Ola Gwozdz discusses, That the leaders that will be able to take us through the nature of the transformations that are ahead of us - will have had experiences themselves of having to deal with their own personal liminality.You'll find that Bethany draws deeply on this in nuanced conversation with deeply personal perspective on leadership. Bethany on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bethanyjarroussie

Being Liminal Is a podcast about the changing nature of Leadership in Business Transformation. Brian and Martin explore the mindset and skills currently missing in Business Leadership of Transformation that when present contribute to the 30% success rate of Large-Scale Business Transformation and Change.The podcast explores Systems and Design Thinking as a necessary approach to leading through the Liminal State that is a Transformation programme. Each episode is either a research interview with a Guest Expert or a working discussion session between the hosts Martin Dowson and Brian Hoadely as they develop the content that will form their new book: Liminal Leaders. This podcast is your opportunity to eavesdrop on their research and writing process.

Podcast Website: www.beingliminal.com

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/being-liminal/id1690994247

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7aJYpbWWZ85SBt27pfUgDo

Martin Dowson on LinkedIn

Brian Hoadley on LinkedIn

In this episode Brian and I are in conversation with Ola Gwozdz, a listener who reached out to share her perspective and we realised we just had to bring into our exploration. Ola helps us delve into the intricacies of identity, power dynamics, and the transformative potential of liminal spaces.

She describes herself as a Data Philosopher, a concept and articulation I find fascinating – using data not just as raw information but a medium or lens to understand and interpret deeper societal and human issues, behaviours and global societal shifts. She philosophises about the implications, meanings and narratives that data can reveal.

We discuss the challenges posed by some of those global shifts like AI and climate change, Ola reflects on the feelings of lost control experienced by many in today's rapidly changing landscape. Yet, amidst the complexities, she finds a glimmer of hope in the quiet voices championing new ways of thinking. she emphasizes the significance of timing in the emergence of new ideas and the role of identity in various communities

Our conversation also touches on the irony for her and for Brian & I of exploring liminal spaces, noting how such exploration can turn our own personal journey into a reflection of those very spaces.

This conversation really digs into the changing nature of leadership and the power of liminality – we’re really looking forward to hearing what you got out of this conversation… Links:Ola Gwozdz on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/olagwozdz/

Being Liminal

Is a podcast about the changing nature of Leadership in Business Transformation. Brian and Martin explore the mindset and skills currently missing in Business Leadership of Transformation that when present contribute to the 30% success rate of Large-Scale Business Transformation and Change.The podcast explores Systems and Design Thinking as a necessary approach to leading through the Liminal State that is a Transformation programme. Each episode is either a research interview with a Guest Expert or a working discussion session between the hosts Martin Dowson and Brian Hoadley as they develop the content that will form their new book: Being Liminal. This podcast is your opportunity to eavesdrop on their research and writing process.

Podcast Website: www.beingliminal.com

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/being-liminal/id1690994247

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7aJYpbWWZ85SBt27pfUgDo

Martin Dowson on LinkedIn

Brian Hoadley on LinkedIn

Do you ever wonder how your organization can embrace change and thrive in the face of uncertainty? Join us on a journey into the world of regenerative design and leadership with our guest, Andy Thornton, the Head of Regenerative Design at the RSA - The Royal Society of Arts, Commerce, and Manufacturing. We explore design and systems thinking, discuss the importance of courage in leadership, and peel back the layers of an ever-evolving organisational landscape. Andy's expertise paints a fresh and crucial perspective on these subject matters, which is pushing the boundaries of what Brian and I are exploring in our research for Liminal Leaders.Our conversation takes us through some of the intricacies of systems thinking and its pivotal role in driving paradigm shifts. Andy references Donella Meadows' leverage points and discusses how to effectively intervene in a system for maximum impact. Andy highlights how the RSA has molded its vision through research, influential connections, and experimentation, and how design thinking can guide us through the uncertain waters of change. We dive into the challenge of getting people to leap into the unknown and how design thinking can be instrumental in navigating this complexity. As we journey further, we dissect the role and evolution of design throughout history, its impact on business and society, and its potential in shaping ethical outcomes. The conversation opens up discussions on the challenges and opportunities in regenerative business, and how design can be used to alter narratives for a more prospering society. This episode concludes with some thought-provoking discussions on the importance of leadership in driving change and stepping into the unknown. So, gear up for an enlightening discourse on regenerative business models and systems thinking that promises to challenge and stretch your perspective on leadership and design.

Being LiminalIs a podcast about the changing nature of Leadership in Business Transformation. Brian and Martin explore the mindset and skills currently missing in Business Leadership of Transformation that when present contribute to the 30% success rate of Large-Scale Business Transformation and Change.The podcast explores Systems and Design Thinking as a necessary approach to leading through the Liminal State that is a Transformation programme. Each episode is either a research interview with a Guest Expert or a working discussion session between the hosts Martin Dowson and Brian Hoadely as they develop the content that will form their new book: Being Liminal. This podcast is your opportunity to eavesdrop on their research and writing process.

Podcast Website: www.beingliminal.com

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/being-liminal/id1690994247

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7aJYpbWWZ85SBt27pfUgDo?si=1ffd9afda4594020

Martin Dowson on LinkedIn

Brian Hoadley on LinkedIn

"The One where Brian and Martin realise they haven't been very 'liminal' in their approach to researching liminality"In response to both Listener and Guest feedback as well as some of our own reflection on what we've learnt so far from our guests - this episode is a moment for us to reflect on our need to pivot our approach to the research and exploration that we are doing. We said we would do this in the open and part of that means recognising and leaning into when you might have been about to head off in the wrong direction. Ahead of the forthcoming episodes with Andy Thornton from the RSA and Ola Gwozdz - Data Philosopher, we discuss how we've had to shift our perspective on where to take the podcast next in order to stay true to our exploration of leadership in Liminal Spaces. Far from our initial framing of liminality in business transformation alone, this episode discusses our need to recognise and explore first of all that we all traverse through liminal phases at different junctures of our lives. As we open up about this newfound perspective, the conversation takes a interesting turn where we discuss the constraints that structures can impose, hindering decision-making and suppressing innovation. Change is a constant, but navigating it can be a herculean task. This episode forces us to look at a fresh approach to change, as we delve into 'abundant edges' and how those who thrive amidst chaos are often the most adaptable to new insights. We also indulge ourselves with engging parallels between Isaac Asimov's Foundation series and our conversations with Andy from the RSA. Wrapping up the episode, we broach the subject of success metrics and their potential misalignment. Is exceeding expectations always a success? Or does true transformation originate from the margins? We explore these thought-provoking questions, and share our take on the need for a paradigm shift in our thinking. Hopefully this sets a transitional scene for the episodes yet to come. As always we'd welcome your feedback.

Being Liminal Is a podcast about the changing nature of Leadership in Business Transformation. Brian and Martin explore the mindset and skills currently missing in Business Leadership of Transformation that when present contribute to the 30% success rate of Large-Scale Business Transformation and Change.The podcast explores Systems and Design Thinking as a necessary approach to leading through the Liminal State that is a Transformation programme. Each episode is either a research interview with a Guest Expert or a working discussion session between the hosts Martin Dowson and Brian Hoadley as they develop the content that will form their new book: Being Liminal. This podcast is your opportunity to eavesdrop on their research and writing process.Podcast Website: http://www.beingliminal.com/ Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/being-liminal/id1690994247Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7aJYpbWWZ85SBt27pfUgDo?si=1ffd9afda4594020Martin Dowson on LinkedInBrian Hoadley on LinkedIn

How do you leverage a moment of potential transformation? How do you support fundamental change in an organisation that sees the need but doesn't know how to realise it? In our discussion with Professor Clive Grinyer, Head of Service Design at the Royal College of Art, we challenge the notion that organisations don't want to change and discuss how design can be a crucial catalyst for business transformation. We delve into the mindset gap that executive leadership are asking for help to bridge, and how the RCA is training service designers of the future to become the catalyst for change in those organisations.Ever wondered about the integral role of service design in strategic change? Our conversation with Clive takes you on a journey tracing the evolution of service design from product design, marketing, and customer experience. Discover how design influences human decision-making and how crucial tools like visualization, experimentation, and prototyping shape strategic changes. We emphasize how important it is for designers to have a champion to help position design further upstream in the process.Moving towards the future of design and design education, we confront the British culture's fear of creativity and its implications for potential design leaders. We also address a growing concern - the overly production level focus of Design, and yet, the significant yet unmeasured impact they can potentially have on businesses. Join us for a session filled with thought-provoking insights - a must-listen for anyone interested in design, leadership, and business transformation.To find out more about the RCA and the Service Design course Clive leads:https://www.rcaservicedesign.com/To find out more about Clive, his experience and how to contact him:https://www.clivegrinyer.com/

Being Liminal Is a podcast about the changing nature of Leadership in Business Transformation. Brian and Martin explore the mindset and skills currently missing in Business Leadership of Transformation that when present contribute to the 30% success rate of Large-Scale Business Transformation and Change.The podcast explores Systems and Design Thinking as a necessary approach to leading through the Liminal State that is a Transformation programme. Each episode is either a research interview with a Guest Expert or a working discussion session between the hosts Martin Dowson and Brian Hoadley as they develop the content that will form their new book: Being Liminal. This podcast is your opportunity to eavesdrop on their research and writing process.Podcast Website: http://www.beingliminal.com/ Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/being-liminal/id1690994247Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7aJYpbWWZ85SBt27pfUgDo?si=1ffd9afda4594020Martin Dowson on LinkedInBrian Hoadley on LinkedIn

What if you could transform your business while also putting ethics at the forefront? That's exactly what we tackle in our conversation with Cennydd Bowles, a designer and technologist turned ethicist, and author of Future Ethics. Cennydd sheds light on the importance of weaving ethics into the fabric of transformation and how ‘designed futures’ can help uncover potential harms.

In an age where technology overwhelmingly shapes our experiences, we touch on the philosophical underpinnings of utilitarianism, deontology, and virtue ethics - and how these frameworks can guide our decision-making processes. We particularly discuss how AI and machine learning often lean towards a utilitarian approach and what that signifies. Moreover, we delve into the imminent ethical dilemmas that leaders in transformation programs might come across and how to make 'ethics' more digestible for businesses.

We also navigate the landscape of design and its impact on technologists, exploring how they can foresee the implications of their work. We throw light on how designers can reclaim their craftsmanship in today's commoditized world and the ethical repercussions of this shift. From discussing the role of design systems to the influence of generative AI on digital product design, we leave no stone unturned.

Finally, we discuss practical tools that businesses can use to anticipate the effects of their decisions, and how a risk management program can help assess the severity of risks and recalibrate their mission statement to mirror their intent rooted in values.

Join us as we endeavor to translate ethical values into operational principles and help businesses navigate the ethics labyrinth.

Cennydd Bowles Personal Website
Cennydd on LinkedIn
Cennydd's Book - Future Ethics - sample chapter and links to where you can buy the book

Liminal Leaders
Is a podcast about the changing nature of Leadership in Business Transformation. Brian and Martin explore the mindset and skills currently missing in Business Leadership of Transformation that when present contribute to the 30% success rate of Large-Scale Business Transformation and Change.

The podcast explores Systems and Design Thinking as a necessary approach to leading through the Liminal State that is a Transformation programme. Each episode is either a research interview with a Guest Expert or a working discussion session between the hosts Martin Dowson and Brian Hoadely as they develop the content that will form their new book: Liminal Leaders. This podcast is your opportunity to eavesdrop on their research and writing process.

Podcast Website: www.liminalleaders.com
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/liminal-leaders/id1690994247
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7aJYpbWWZ85SBt27pfUgDo?si=1ffd9afda4594020

Martin Dowson on LinkedIn
Brian Hoadley on LinkedIn

What if the superpowers needed to navigate today's complex world were already within us? That's what we discovered in our fascinating conversation with Maria Giudice, co-author of "Changemakers," as we discussed the evolving nature of leadership in business transformation and the innate qualities designers possess that make them powerful agents of change. Maria shares her insights on the importance of embracing change agency, risk-taking, intuition, systems thinking, and people-centered approaches to tackle the challenges of our increasingly complex world.We also explored the complexities of driving change in organizations that may not be prepared for it and the importance of setting realistic expectations and goals. With Maria's expertise, we delved into the value of having an executive champion to support you through resistance, and the time and resources it takes to create lasting cultural change. Reflecting on the progress made, we acknowledged that culture change often takes years to take hold but is essential for organizational success.Lastly, we discussed the evolving relationship between design and business, and the potential of designers to be leaders in this interconnected world. Maria shared her experiences of creating organizational change at Autodesk and the importance of fostering empathy and compassion for those with different goals and perspectives. We touched on the shift from the traditional 'rock star' leader to a more inclusive and collaborative approach, and how social activism plays a role in driving change. Join us for this enlightening episode as we learn from Maria's experience and discover our own potential to create meaningful change in the world.You can connect with Maria on LinkedIn:On LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/mariagiudiceOn Twitter - @mgiudiceOn Instagram - @mgiudiceand you can pick up her book atRosenfeld Mediahttps://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/changemakers/or Maria's Amazon link:https://a.co./d/gAx1NHf

Being LiminalIs a podcast about the changing nature of Leadership in Business Transformation. Brian and Martin explore the mindset and skills currently missing in Business Leadership of Transformation that when present contribute to the 30% success rate of Large-Scale Business Transformation and Change.The podcast explores Systems and Design Thinking as a necessary approach to leading through the Liminal State that is a Transformation programme. Each episode is either a research interview with a Guest Expert or a working discussion session between the hosts Martin Dowson and Brian Hoadley as they develop the content that will form their new book: Being Liminal. This podcast is your opportunity to eavesdrop on their research and writing process.Podcast Website: www.beingliminal.comApple: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/being-liminal/id1690994247Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7aJYpbWWZ85SBt27pfUgDo?si=1ffd9afda4594020Martin Dowson on LinkedInBrian Hoadley on LinkedIn