Bret and guest co-host Heather Lally discuss the latest food and beverage trends and share an interview with Susan Bae, executive pastry chef of Moon Rabbit in Washington, D.C.

With the National Restaurant Show in the rearview mirror, Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation’s Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, welcomed a guest co-host to the podcast, Heather Lally, managing editor of sister publications Restaurant Business, Supermarket News, and CSP Daily News.

With an expert in the retail space joining the show, Bret and Heather discussed the increasing presence of drinks made with cannabis in that channel. There was also an entire section at the Restaurant Show dedicated to those drinks, with both hosts visited with enthusiasm, and Heather also sat in on a presentation on the potentially thorny legal issues around cannabis, regulations of which vary from state to state.

They also discussed some of the plant-based options at the show, which are of particular importance to Heather, who’s a pescatarian. Often the meatless options she’s presented with at meals, though tasty, tend to lack protein, being made with ingredients such as cauliflower and mushrooms.

Then Bret shared an interview with Susan Bae, the executive pastry chef of Moon Rabbit, a Vietnamese-inspired restaurant in Washington, D.C.

The annual National Restaurant Association Show in Chicago concluded Tuesday, and both editors spent the last four days walking the Show floor, sampling food and drinks from the thousands of exhibitors, recording podcasts and video interviews and attending events.

Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation’s Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, was on stage at the 2025 MenuMasters awards Saturday, handing out awards to this year’s eight restaurant and chef recipients at a gala celebration held at Morgan Manufacturing.

Michelin-starred chefs Dominque Crenn and Curtis Duffy were both honored, the former inducted into the MenuMasters Hall of Fame and the latter recognized as MenuMasters 2025 Innovator. Culinary directors from chains including Wendy’s, Chili’s, True Food Kitchen, Fuzzy’s Taco Shop and Iron Hill Brewery & Restaurant also received awards for menu innovation. And restaurateur and social media expert Alexandra Lourdes won for Digital Innovation.

Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, also attended the event and was impressed how all the awardees acknowledged the importance of team collaboration to menu innovation.

She also enjoyed a number of bites and sips on the Show floor. Standouts included the avocado toast bar at Avocados from Mexico, an everything bagel-seasoned brie from the California cheese booth and a pistachio latte made with pistachio milk at the Campbell’s booth. Speaking of non-dairy milk, Pat tried fermented oat milk that is processed into 2-D printed sheets that simply have to be rehydrated. It’s a high-tech, sustainable solution by Milkadamia, a plant-based milk company.

Bret and Pat were judges for the National Restaurant Show’s Food and Beverage Innovation awards and had the pleasure of honoring the recipients on Monday, as they all came up to the Beverage Room stage for recognition and photo ops.

This week’s operator interview is with Kyle Knall, chef-owner of Birch in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Before moving to Milwaukee to be closer to family, Knall earned his culinary chops under celebrated chef Frank Stitt in Birmingham, Alabama, and at Gramercy Tavern in New York. Birch’s casual vibe and inspired, locally sourced menu have turned it into a popular dining destination. Another restaurant is in the works in Milwaukee’s Third Ward historic district. Listen to Knall’s culinary journey, mission and plans for the future.

Ube, the photogenic purple sweet potato from the Philippines, has been trending gradually in the United States. It got a boost recently when it made it onto the menu of the three Starbucks Reserve Roastery locations in Chicago, New York, and Seattle where it’s added to a coconut cold foam and spooned over an Espresso Martini.

Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, and Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation’s Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, discussed the ube phenomenon, which also came up in Pat’s conversation with the operators of Tous Les Jours, a Korean-based pastry concept that’s growing quickly in the United States. Pat said they see ube and another trending Asian ingredient, matcha, as points of distinction for the brand.

Speaking of trends and Korean food, Bret went to a preview of a collab between fast-casual salad chain Sweetgreen and fine-dining Korean steakhouse Cote. Sweetgreen has collaborated with fine-dining chefs in the past, including Dan Barber of Blue Hill and Nancy Silverton of Mozza, and this new one features Korean sauces and marinades that are used in three limited-time offers: Two salads and a more substantial plate.

The LTOs expand on Sweetgreen’s introduction of steak last year—another trend in fast-casual restaurants. While chicken, always popular, is gaining even further traction at limited-service restaurants, Pat and Bret discussed how steak really shines as LTOs, including these new ones at Sweetgreen and the Steak Stroganoff at Noodles & Company, which was discussed during that chain’s recent earnings call as a reason for the fast casual’s relative success during the first quarter.

Bret also sampled the returning Campfire menu at Cracker Barrel. It’s become a harbinger of summer for the chain, which this year added a shrimp skillet with andouille sausage to the lineup.

Bret also shared an interview with Indian chef Rasika Venkatesa, the former chef de cuisine of Mourad in San Francisco, who is now in New York City operating a series of pop-ups called Mythili, named for her grandmother. Venkatesa discussed her approach to cooking Indian food, and shared how she collected recipes from villagers from throughout the state of Tamil Nadu.

Cinco de Mayo is now in the rearview mirror, and restaurant chains are focusing on new tie-ins. Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation’s Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, noted the launch of Sonic’s Unicorn Dreams Slush, a bubbly, bright pink drink that comes with a choice of four color-changing straws. It’s perfectly positioned for Instagram, as many new menu items are lately.

Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, commented that beverages continue to be a hotbed of menu innovation. Pizza also saw some action this week, with both Mellow Mushroom and &pizza debuting taco-inspired pies.

Bret also pointed out the return of chicken and waffles to KFC and barbecue sandwiches at Shake Shack. At the latter, there’s a chicken sandwich and burger, each with a choice of either the Shake Shack’s signature barbecue sauce or a new Carolina-style flavor profile. Along with a new campfire s’mores shake and lemonade drinks, this is a menu that’s anticipating summer.

Then we shared an interview with Mark Boyton, VP of global food & beverage for Puttshack, a mini-golf eatertainment concept with 16 locations. Boyton is an experienced restaurant chef and is intent on elevating Puttshack’s food, cocktails, beer and wine. Instead of the usual nachos and wings, the menu features globally inspired small plates and local flavors. Listen as he shares the tasty details.

Lots of LTOs and permanent menu items launched recently, as innovation accelerates. Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation’s Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, started with the big news: Crispy Chicken Strips are now on McDonald’s permanent menu—the mega-chain’s first new menu item since 2022.

Arby’s continues its LTO collaborations with celebs, this time partnering with Cedric The Entertainer and Anthony Anderson, slathering the comedians’ line of barbecue sauces on a brisket and pulled pork sandwich. And Cava introduced a spicy variation on its fan-favorite pita chips—Hot Harissa.

Pat had a first taste of a couple of sweets from soon-to-open Cinnabon Swirl, a dual-branded Cinnabon-Carvel concept from GoTo Foods. The highlight is a Bonini, an ice cream sandwich made with two cinnamon roll slices with a disc of Carvel vanilla in the middle. It’s placed in a panini press for 15 seconds and comes out all gooey—in a good way.

Bret attended a 4/20 party at Red Lobster, learning that the chain’s Cheddar Biscuits are a popular munchie for stoners. Instead of passing out joints, Red Lobster served cocktails featuring Snoop Dogg and Dr. Dre's gin mixed with orange juice, pineapple juice and guava juice with a garnish of Skittles on the side of the glass. There’s a recurring candy theme here.

Our guest this week is Jay Kumar, chef-owner of Lore in Brooklyn, N.Y. He specializes in the cuisine of the Malabar coast with masala dosas a signature, but the restaurant has a diverse and interesting menu. Give a listen.

Pat Cobe, senior menu editor at Restaurant Business, and Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor for Nation’s Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, together moderated a menu innovation panel at the Restaurant Leadership Conference last Monday in Phoenix. Participants included operators from Popeyes, Noodle’s & Company, Potbelly, Applebee’s and Velvet Taco, and we heard a lot about what’s in the works and what’s to come.

At RLC, we also heard from Kevin Hochman, CEO of Chili’s and our Restaurant Leader of the Year. He chatted about a lot of things on stage, including the Big QP Burger, Chili’s quarter-pound burger that launched that day. It’s a clear swipe at McDonald’s, and as a special introductory deal, it comes with fries and a soft drink for $10.99.

Then we shared an interview with Bob Johnston, CEO of The Melting Pot, which is celebrating its 50th anniversary this year. When the restaurant chain started, there were only three fondues on the menu: beef, cheese and chocolate.

Johnston, who began as a dishwasher at The Melting Pot, talked about how the menu has since expanded, with on-trend items like seafood and veggie fondues, a brie and fig variation, and steak fondue with mango-habanero sauce. There is also a full bar with craft cocktails and a varied wine selection, a far cry from Michelob—the only beer option back in the ‘70s. Listen as we hear how The Melting Pot has evolved but is still offering an interactive dining experience, which is exactly what many guests want these days when they visit a restaurant.

Hosts Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, and Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation’s Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, had a busy week going to chain restaurants’ promotional events in New York City.

Pat had high tea featuring Portillo’s menu items, and Bret went to a preview of the first United States location of Chinese chain Pull-Tab Coffee, whose signature menu item is a sort of reversed iced cappuccino: Coffee foam on top of milk on the rocks.

He also went to Bar Tender, a two-day pop-up in Brooklyn created by Wingstop, featuring the chain’s upgraded, crunchier chicken tenders in 12 different flavors (he didn’t try them all, but he did his best).

They also discussed the big chain news of Wendy’s new Frosty options. They can now be blended with syrups, and starting in May there will be mix-ins available — like Dairy Queen Blizzards.

Also big news: McDonald’s has upgraded its lemonade, doing away with Minute Maid (although its orange juice is still in stock), and replacing it with a beverage of lemon juice, lemon pulp and sugar.

Then Bret shared an interview with Juan and Gee Smalls, the owners of three-unit Virgil’s Gullah Kitchen & Bar in Atlanta, featuring the food of the Gullah and Geechee people of the coastal areas from North Carolina to Georgia. They’re first-time restaurateurs, motivated by what they saw as a need for venues owned and operated by Black gay people. The couple discuss their learning process and plans for the future.

Pickles are moving from sidekick to main event on restaurant menus, as the Menu Talk co-hosts witnessed recently.

Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation’s Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, attended Popeyes’ pickle reveal at the chain’s flagship Times Square location in New York City. The restaurant was decked out in green from top to bottom, and Bret got to taste Popeyes new pickle menu, which included fried pickles, a tart pickle glazed chicken sandwich and pickle lemonade. Although not on the menu, servers also handed out Pickle Margaritas infused with pickle juice, and pickles with smoked salmon, caviar and crème fraiche, courtesy of NYC deli landmark, Zabar’s.

When Pat Cobe, senior editor of Restaurant Business, interviewed Popeyes chef Amy Alarcon following the event, she mentioned the hydrating properties of pickle juice, which is mixed into Popeyes’ signature cane sugar-sweetened lemonade. Coffee chain Dutch Bros also introduced a pickle juice energy drink this month, the Pickleback Rebel.

Moving on to non-pickle items, Pat talked about the inspiration behind Jack in the Box’s culturally connected milkshakes. The latest is the Pink Pineapple Express that ties into 4/20, the unofficial “holiday” celebrating cannabis. Bret mentioned that Ike’s Love and Sandwiches and Jimmy John’s are both offering special munchies for 4/20 as well.

Other food news of the week focused on the never-ending parade of ranch dressing variations and Subway’s latest footlong snack—Doritos Footlong Nachos.

Bill Nevruz of Shaw's Crab House | Photo courtesy of Lettuce Entertain You Enterprises

Then the two shared an interview with Bill Nevruz, an executive partner in Lettuce Entertain You Enterprises and the divisional president of Shaw’s Crab House in Chicago. Shaw’s is celebrating its 40th anniversary this month, and Nevruz described the festivities around that milestone, including a throwback menu that features items like sauteed frogs’ legs, clams casino and crab-stuffed shrimp. Of course, signatures including oysters, sushi and king crab legs will also be on hand, along with two anniversary cocktails—an Old Fashioned and a Martini—both garnished with oysters and caviar.

Listen as Nevruz relates Shaw’s story and how the restaurant has earned its reputation as a premier seafood destination far from both coasts.