What if the very technology that promises to make us more efficient is actually creating “soul gaps” – spaces where human understanding and meaning simply cannot be replicated? In this deeply insightful episode of Poets and Thinkers, we explore the future of humanistic leadership with Michael Ventura, founder of SubRosa, author of “Applied Empathy,” and a fascinating polymath who bridges brand strategy, alternative medicine, and human development. From his practice at Esalen Institute to co-founding a pet food company with Chrissy Teigen and John Legend, Michael brings a unique perspective on how empathy serves as the new language of leadership.

Michael takes us on a journey through what empathy really means – distinguishing it from sympathy and compassion – and why it's become critical for leaders navigating increasingly diverse, multi-generational workforces. He shares compelling insights about how AI can replicate the technical aspects of creativity but misses the essential human elements, like where to place the divine spark of light in a Renaissance painting. Through examples ranging from political manipulation to Meta’s disturbing targeting of insecure teenagers, Michael reveals both the light and dark sides of applied empathy.

Throughout our conversation, Michael challenges us to slow down in a world obsessed with speed, arguing that patience – not just efficiency – should be a core leadership skill. He envisions a future where leaders move from having all the answers to asking all the right questions, creating space for diverse perspectives and collective intelligence. And we’ll even get a little teaser for Michael’s upcoming book on “constellation thinking” which promises to revolutionize how we understand purpose in our complex, multi-faceted modern lives.

In this discussion, we explore:

• Why empathy is not about being nice – it's about understanding without conversion
• How AI creates “soul gaps” where human meaning and divine sparks cannot be replicated
• The difference between cognitive empathy used for manipulation versus authentic connection
• Why leaders must transition from answer-givers to question-askers
• How patience becomes a revolutionary skill in our hyperconnected world
• The loss of shared cultural moments and emotional commons in our fragmented media landscape

This episode is an invitation to reclaim the deeply human skills that technology cannot replicate, and to use empathy not as weakness but as a strategic advantage in building more connected, innovative organizations.

Resources Mentioned

• Applied Empathy: The New Language of Leadership by Michael Ventura
• “The Dark Side of Empathy” - Michael’s New York Times op-ed
• “America's Uncontacted Tribes” article by Michael Ventura
• Center for Humane Technology - led by Tristan Harris
• Kismet – pet food company Michael co-founded with Chrissy Teigen and John Legend

Connect with Michael Ventura:

Website:

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What if the discomfort leaders feel right now, at the beginning of the AI age, isn’t a problem to solve, but the exact place where transformation happens? In this episode of Poets & Thinkers, we explore the future of organizational leadership and human potential with Meg Bear, a seasoned tech executive turned “future inventor” who brings a unique perspective as a fifth-generation Bay Area native and first-generation college graduate. From her advisory work with CEOs and boards to her mission of creating abundant futures that value our shared humanity, Meg offers a compelling vision for navigating unprecedented change.

Meg takes us on a journey through her unconventional life and career path – from engineering leadership at Oracle and president of SAP’s HCM (Human Capital Management) business to her current work helping organizations harness human ingenuity. She reveals why the traditional business leadership playbook – built on certainty and past experience – is not only obsolete but counterproductive in our current moment.

Drawing from her background as a cultural outsider who learned to navigate different worlds, Meg explains how the skills of adaptation and cross-cultural communication that immigrants develop are exactly what all leaders need now.

Throughout our conversation, Meg challenges the narrative that change is simply happening to us, instead advocating for agency in shaping the future we want to live in. She argues that we’re at a unique moment where discomfort is hitting “all layers of the stack” – from the board room and the c-suite to the ICs – and that this discomfort is not only natural but necessary for growth. Her vision for leadership emphasizes curiosity over certainty, collective intelligence over individual expertise, and the courage to embrace vulnerability as a pathway to learning.

In this transformative discussion, we explore:

• Why the space between what you can’t control and what you can impact is bigger than you think
• How traditional business leadership models based on certainty are failing in uncertain times
• Why emotions are data that reveal deeper fears about changing definitions of competence
• The need for psychologically safe spaces where experienced leaders can express confusion
• How untapped human ingenuity could be unlocked through more inclusive value creation in organizations of the future
• Why our “messy bits” are actually our greatest sources of strength and adaptability

This episode is an invitation for leaders to move beyond fear-based reactions to inevitable change, and instead embrace the agency we have to invent futures that serve our shared humanity.

Resources Mentioned

• Reid Hoffman on GenAI as the cognitive industrial revolution: https://www.mckinsey.com/capabilities/mckinsey-digital/our-insights/gen-ai-a-cognitive-industrial-revolution
• The myth of exponential hypergrowth: https://longform.asmartbear.com/exponential-growth/
• Inventing the future: https://www.megbear.com/post/inventing-the-future
• Meg’s 2025 word of the year: https://www.megbear.com/pos

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What if the struggle and friction in the creative process is actually what makes art meaningful – and what we’re at risk of losing in our rush toward AI efficiency? In this deeply reflective episode of Poets & Thinkers, we explore the intersection of human creativity and artificial intelligence with Nando Costa, a renowned designer and artist who has been at the very forefront of Generative AI (GenAI) and whose work has shaped the visual identity of major tech companies including Microsoft, Google, and ServiceNow. From his home studio on Bainbridge Island, Nando shares his journey from early GenAI experimentation to a deeper understanding of what makes creativity authentically human.

Nando takes us through his extensive exploration of generative AI, having created over 25,000 pieces using these tools, only to discover their addictive, slot-machine-like qualities and ultimate lack of artistic depth. He reveals how this experience led him to champion “slow photography,” deliberate creative processes, and the irreplaceable value of human intention in artistic work. Through compelling examples – from photographers camping for days to capture the perfect shot to his daughter’s (who’s also an artist) immediate rejection of AI-generated art – Nando illustrates why the time, energy, and personal investment we put into creating something directly correlates to its impact on others.

Throughout our conversation, Nando challenges the dominant narrative that speed and optimization should drive creative work, instead advocating for depth over speed and originality over optimization. His insights on brand work, creative leadership, and the future of design offer a compelling counter-narrative to the “AI will replace everything” mentality, showing how human creativity becomes more precious – not less – in an automated world.

In this thought-provoking discussion, we explore:

• Why generative AI feels addictive but ultimately lacks the depth of human-created art
• How the time and energy invested in creation directly impacts the meaning of the work
• Why Gen Z is gravitating toward analog processes like film photography and vinyl records
• The importance of “slow” and deliberate creative processes in maintaining authenticity
• How friction in the creative act isn’t a bug to be fixed, but a feature to be embraced
• What the future of brand work looks like when anyone can generate content instantly

This episode is an invitation to reconsider our relationship with creative tools and the creative act itself, to value the human struggle that gives art its meaning, and to champion depth and originality in an age of optimization.

Resources Mentioned

• Book: Slow Productivity
• Theo Jansen’s wind-powered beach sculptures
• SomeForm Studio example of curated AI automation in design

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Get in touch: ben@poetsandthinkers.co

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