Fascinated by German football from a young age, Kit Holden has carved a unique career since he's moved to Berlin.

A freelance journalist writing in both German and English for titles such as Der Tagesspiegel and The Athletic, Holden has recently published two outstanding books.

Scheisse! We're Going Up, tells the story of Union Berlin through the stories of Unioner dating back to the days of the DDR. Played In Germany, published in June of this year, explores the football history and cultures of the host cities of Euro 2024.

In this conversation we cover:

• Kit's origins in German football, and moving to Berlin (4:45)
• How Berlin has changed during Kit's time in the city (7:03)
• Whether Kit's relationship with Union has changed the more he covers the team professionally (10:38)
• The difference in writing for a native German audience, and English-speaking titles (15:48)
• The process of writing Scheisse! (18:13)
• Perceptions of Union in English speaking countries (24:13)
• The matchday experience at the Alte Fösterei (30:44)
• The diversity of fan cultures in Germany (35:45)
• Why Bavarian culture has become a byword for German culture in other parts of the world (39:10)
• Leipzig's role in the foundation of German football (42:36)
• The unease many people in Germany feel around nationalism and football (48:23)
• The role of football clubs in fighting the emerging far right presence in the East of Germany (53:22)

Buy Scheisse! We're Going Up! here: https://uk.bookshop.org/p/books/scheisse-we-re-going-up-the-unexpected-rise-of-berlin-s-rebel-football-club-kit-holden/6698522

Buy Played in Germany here: https://uk.bookshop.org/p/books/played-in-germany-a-footballing-journey-through-a-nation-s-soul-kit-holden/7592294

Podcast cover designed by Graeme Sapsed. Need graphic design support, reach out to Graeme on his LinkedIn account https://www.linkedin.com/in/graemesapsed/

About The Bundesletter Podcast

The Bundesletter Podcast is an interview programme featuring the expert insight of observer of German football and its culture.

We'll hear from journalists, historians, analysts and fans of fußball on their experiences of following and learning the game.

This series is a companion to the Bundesletter, a weekly newsletter written, edited and published by Tom Ritchie, a journalist based in Berlin.

You can subscribe to the newsletter here: bundesletter.substack.com.

Jacob Sweetman is a writer, a drummer, and a keen observer of football in the Haupstadt.

Now the lead for FC Union Berlin's english communications, Jacob has been writing about fußball and Berlin for almost two decades, since moving to the city in 2007.

In the 2010s, he edited and published No Dice Magazine, a fanzine that covered the many football clubs in Berlin. In his role with Union, he manages the club's english Twitter feed, writes match reports, and produces video interviews with key figures at the Alte Försterei.

In this wide ranging conversation, Jacob sahres his thoughts on:

4:30 — Moving to Berlin
6:30 — His time editing and publishing No Dice Magazine
10:30 — Berlin's repuation, or lack thereof, as a football city
12:00 — The welcoming nature of Union's fans
14:00 — The diverse nature of clubs and their fanbases in Berlin
18:30 — The figures that best exemplify the city's football culture and history
21:15 — The history of Union and Hertha's friendship, and subsequent rivalry
25:45 — Union's position as the people's club under the DDR, and their animosity towards BFC Dynamo
30:00 — His fandom of Union
39:00 — His hopes for the season ahead
40:30 — The best books for understanding German football

About The Bundesletter Podcast

The Bundesletter Podcast is an interview programme featuring the expert insight of observer of German football and its culture.

We'll hear from journalists, historians, analysts and fans of fußball on their experiences of following and learning the game.

This series is a companion to the Bundesletter, a weekly newsletter written, edited and published by Tom Ritchie, a journalist based in Berlin.

You can subscribe to the newsletter here: bundesletter.substack.com.