LEAD HOST: Rev. Michael-Ray Mathews

GUESTS: Reverends Rudy & Juanita Rasmus

Seeing Big Ma on the Mothers’ pew of the church, crying her heart out in grief, gratitude and joy, left an indelible mark on me…as a child I knew something powerful and transformative was happening in the front of the church, on “the Mothers Bench.” -MRM 

Conflating the Mother’s & Mourner’s bench as a child, Rev. Mathews has since envisioned ideas of grief, conquering fear, healing, joy and liberation that enflesh theology and hold much-needed space for trauma healing and transformation—not just in body, or mind or the abstracted spirit or soul— but the whole Black Body. The FOUR are joined by Rudy and Juanita Rasmus for a deeply personal and compelling conversation. They are pastors, authors and humanitarians with a passion for healing. Including their own.

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Once lost himself, (in his words, he owned “borderline bordello”), today Pastor Rudy co-leads St. John’s Downtown Houston with his wife, Juanita, of 32 years. 

From nine members in 1992, the church has grown to the thousands where people of every social and economic background share the pew. Pastor Rudy attributes success to tearing down the walls of classism, sexism, and racism, and building compassionate bridges of unconditional love, universal recovery, and unprecedented hope. 

With generous support from government agencies and Beyoncé, Tina and Solange Knowles, St. John’s offers permanent housing to formerly unhoused women and men; employment services, youth empowerment activities; and is one of few faith communities in the U.S. providing HIV/AIDS testing to churchgoers on Sundays. They also lead domestic and global anti-hunger initiatives in conjunction with Beyoncé’s concert tours and distribute over nine tons of fresh produce weekly to hungry families in Houston.

LEAD HOST: Rev. Michael-Ray Mathews
GUEST: Rev. angel Kyodo williams, Roshi

SHOUTIN’ IN THE FIRE & FINDING FIERCE LOVE

LEAD HOST: Rev. Dr. Jacqui Lewis

GUEST: Dante Stewart

Best-selling author and new voice, Dante Stewart, stormed the scene with his personal story. In 2016, he was a rising leader at his predominantly white evangelical church. But then came Donald Trump and Dante quickly found himself isolated amid a people unraveled. He needed to leave his god box and Dr. Lewis challenges us to do the same.

Shoutin’ In The Fire: An American Epistle, Dante’s coming of age in a time of terror, calls us to reclaim and reimagine spiritual virtues like rage, resilience, and remembrance. Similarly, Dr. Lewis, in her new memoir, Fierce Love: A Bold Path to Ferocious Courage and Rule-Breaking Kindness That Can Heal the World, says we need to bravely disengage from the old image of God and leave the confined god box of the Black space. Both agree: We need faith that speaks truth to pain and trauma, and pursues a truer love than the kind we’re taught. 

Featured on CNN, The Washington Post, Christianity Today, Sojourners and more, Dante joins The FOUR to explore how these virtues might function against an unjust, unloving world. 

LEAD HOST: Lisa Sharon Harper
GUEST: Kristin Kobes Du Mez

Kristin Kobes Du Mez catapulted to the top of the best-seller list with her book,  Jesus and John Wayne. A leading church historian, joins The FOUR in a real eye-opener for the team. Kristin pulls back the curtain on conservative white evangelical America to give us a behind-the-scenes look at the white evangelical movement, what got us to January 6th, and where we may go next. In sum, at times The FOUR were left speechless. 

This episode features the track Hakodate Line by Blue Dot Sessions

BONUS MINUTE: "I will not hate."

Dr. Otis Moss, Jr. shares a deeply moving experience with MLK, Sr.

LEAD CO-HOSTS: Lisa Sharon Harper and Rev. Dr. Jacqui Lewis GUEST: Rev. Dr. Otis Moss, Jr.

The FOUR continue the conversation with Reverend Dr. Otis Moss, Jr.  Globally revered, Dr. Moss is one of America’s most distinguished leaders in the decades-long struggle for civil and human rights, health care, education and social justice. Join The FOUR for Part 2 of their conversation.

Reverend Moss co-pastored with Rev. Martin Luther King, Sr. at the Ebenezer Baptist Church in Atlanta, and was a board member and regional director of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference (SCLC) during Dr. King’s tenure as founding president. He marched alongside Nelson Mandela against Aparteid. He served as an advisor to former President Carter at Camp David, and in 1994 he was the guest of former president Clinton at the Peace Treaty signing between Israel and Jordan; he served on President Obama’s White House Office of Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnership Council; and board member and trustee of the Martin Luther King, Jr. Center for Nonviolent Social Change. 

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Dr. Moss is the recipient of numerous awards, including:  Role Model of the Year Award from the National Institute for Responsible Fatherhood and Family Development (1992); Leadership Award from the Cleveland chapter of the American Jewish Committee (1996); Dr. Moss was bestowed the unique honor of the Lyman Beecher Lectureship on Preaching from Yale University (2004); and he was inducted into the 2007 Class of the International Civil Rights Walk of Fame. He holds six honorary degrees from colleges and universities in Ohio, Georgia, and Arkansas; Morehouse College named a set of dormitory suites in his honor where he was also president of the Morehouse College Board of Directors for nearly a dozen years.

If his name sounds familiar, Otis Moss, Jr. is also “Pops”— dad to The FOUR’s Otis Moss III, as well as Kevin Moss and Daphne Moss (deceased). Married to Mrs. Edwina Hudson Moss, they are the proud grandparents of five grandchildren and one great-granddaughter. 

Because family history is legacy, we have a few books to share:  

Fortune: How Race Broke My Family and the World and How to Repair It All: Lisa Sharon Harper’s odyssey to document 10 generations of her family — Black, white and Native American — in her newest book, 

Fierce Love: A Bold Path to Ferocious Courage and Rule-Breaking Kindness That Can Heal the World: Rev. Dr. Jacqui Lewis’ stories from her own life and those of her mentors and inspirations, are accompanied by nine daily practices for transforming ourselves, our communities, and our world at large.

LEAD CO-HOSTS: Lisa Sharon Harper and Rev. Dr. Jacqui Lewis GUEST: Rev. Dr. Otis Moss, Jr.  

Where to begin? Reverend Dr. Otis Moss, Jr. is one of America’s most distinguished voices, advocating for the achievement of education, civil and human rights, health care and social justice. His influence is global and revered. The FOUR are honored to invite Dr. Moss into a two part conversation with this influential and very special leader. 

Reverend Moss co-pastored with Rev. Martin Luther King, Sr. at the Ebenezer Baptist Church in Atlanta, and was a board member and regional director of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference (SCLC) during Dr. King’s tenure as founding president. He marched alongside Nelson Mandela against Aparteid. He served as an advisor to former President Carter at Camp David, and in 1994 he was the guest of former president Clinton at the Peace Treaty signing between Israel and Jordan; he served on President Obama’s White House Office of Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnership Council; and board member and trustee of the Martin Luther King, Jr. Center for Nonviolent Social Change. 

Read more…

Dr. Moss is the recipient of numerous awards, including:  Role Model of the Year Award from the National Institute for Responsible Fatherhood and Family Development (1992); Leadership Award from the Cleveland chapter of the American Jewish Committee (1996); Dr. Moss was bestowed the unique honor of the Lyman Beecher Lectureship on Preaching from Yale University (2004); and he was inducted into the 2007 Class of the International Civil Rights Walk of Fame. He holds six honorary degrees from colleges and universities in Ohio, Georgia, and Arkansas; Morehouse College named a set of dormitory suites in his honor where he was also president of the Morehouse College Board of Directors for nearly a dozen years.

If his name sounds familiar, Otis Moss, Jr. is also “Pops”— dad to The FOUR’s Otis Moss III, as well as Kevin Moss and Daphne Moss (deceased). Married to Mrs. Edwina Hudson Moss, they are the proud grandparents of five grandchildren and one great-granddaughter. 

Because family history is legacy, we have a few books to share:  

Fortune: How Race Broke My Family and the World and How to Repair It All: Lisa Sharon Harper’s odyssey to document 10 generations of her family — Black, white and Native American — in her newest book.

Fierce Love: A Bold Path to Ferocious Courage and Rule-Breaking Kindness That Can Heal the World: Rev. Dr. Jacqui Lewis’ stories from her own life and those of her mentors and inspirations, are accompanied by nine daily practices for transforming ourselves, our communities, and our world at large.