Colin Fleming is a returning guest, and the CMO of ServiceNow, a B2B company ripping up the B2B marketing playbook. It’s not the first time Colin has done this, having previously spent 13 years at Salesforce turning them into a brand to be reckoned with. In this episode I talk to Colin about their new brand campaign with Idris Elba, what the future of marketing with AI looks like and the biggest lessons a CMO can take from a former F1 racing driver.

00:00 - Intro
01:36 - What is ServiceNow?
03:03 - How well is the marketing role understood at ServiceNow
04:26 - How to position marketing for leadership
05:38 - How are B2B buying decisions made
07:49 - Dealing with losing 50% lead volume
10:22 - How Colin is building the ServiceNow brand?
12:00 - ServiceNow’s use of distinctive assets
14:21 - ServiceNow’s ads with Idris Elba
17:07 - Understanding Agentic AI
19:47 - AI agents use cases
20:37 - Why we shouldn’t fear AI
23:10 - The risks of AI agents
24:12 - How to make AI agents work together
26:04 - What skills will CMOs need to win in the next 5-10 years?
27:20 - 5 things B2B marketers are wrong about
29:10 - How ServiceNow are using personalisation at scale
31:53 - Why the data is so important for AI
34:13 - How Colin went from F1 to CMO
35:04 - Lessons from being a racing driver to marketing
36:06 - ServiceNow’s partnership with Aston Martin
37:43 - Most surprising lesson for Colin since he left Salesforce

In a world first, Scott Galloway and Rory Sutherland go head to head to talk about some of the biggest topics in marketing. They lock horns on Scott's controversial statement "the era of brand is dead" and why most successful companies don't advertise. You'll also hear the two disagreeing on the Jaguar rebrand, at which point Scott may or may not have called Rory sexy...

Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
02:15 - Be in an industry you get better at as you get older
05:41 - Does wealth redistribution need to change?
16:22 - Why the most successful companies don’t advertise
22:49 - The era of brand is over
30:39 - Scott’s fear for young men
35:52 - Scott and Rory discuss dating
40:56 - Was the Jaguar rebrand stupid?

Today, I’m joined by James Kuczynski, Creative Director at Duolingo, and Dan Salkey, Founding Partner at Small World, for a conversation on how to build truly entertaining brands.

Fresh off their SXSW panel titled "Entertain or Die", named after a report by Small World, we explore how Duolingo has built such a standout brand, particularly through the rise (and death...) of their iconic mascot, Duo.

In the first half of the episode, I chat with James about Duolingo’s brand success, why they decided to "kill off" their beloved mascot, and how giving creative autonomy to their team has been key to their growth. In the second half, I speak with Dan about the most entertaining brands in the world today—and the specific traits you can apply to make your own brand more entertaining.

Download the Entertain or Die report here.

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
00:47 - Part 1: James Kuczynski from Duolingo
01:22 - James’ background in marketing
03:23 - How James joined Duolingo
04:18 - What is Duolingo
06:34 - How Duolingo has used gamification to help people learn languages
09:47 - How is AI enhancing Duolingo?
11:20 - Is AI a threat to Duolingo?
12:13 - Why Duolingo created “Duo”, their mascot
15:47 - How the Duolingo owl evolved
17:56 - Duolingo’s April fools plans
20:00 - Why Duolingo killed off their mascot
23:57 - The results of Duo killing their mascot
25:08 - How partnerships have played a role in the success of Duolingo
28:02 - How Duo is bigger than A-list celebrities
29:26 - How Duolingo built such a huge social media following
32:08 - The importance of being in-house for growing Duolingo
33:17 - How Duolingo hires social media talent
34:34 - The thing that makes Duolingo stand out
36:32 - Part 2: Dan Salkey from Small World
37:15 - Why Small World created the Entertain or Die report
38:57 - How they identified the most entertaining brands on the planet
39:30 - What brands are the most entertaining?
40:41 - Why the most boring categories have most space to innovate
42:35 - The entertainment gap
44:07 - How can brands be more entertaining?
49:54 - Final advice on how brands can be more entertaining