In Episode 34 of Life After Ministry, Dennis Allen, author of The Disciple Dilemma, shares his journey from a military and corporate background to addressing one of the most significant crises in the church today: the failure of discipleship. Dennis discusses how the church has shifted from making disciples to prioritizing institutional success, leading to widespread disengagement, de-churching, and a broken model of ministry. Drawing on his leadership experience, Dennis explains how churches can refocus on their true mission—making disciples who make disciples.

This episode is crucial for ministry leaders, decision-makers, and anyone grappling with the challenges of church leadership in today’s complex landscape. Dennis offers deep insights into how discipleship can transform churches, reduce pastor burnout, and create lasting impact in the lives of congregations. His message is a wake-up call to rethink the church's mission and rediscover the biblical model of discipleship.

Join us as we dive into practical solutions for reviving discipleship in the church and hear Dennis' heartfelt encouragement to pastors who have transitioned out of ministry, reminding them that their identity is not lost—there is still hope and purpose beyond the pulpit.

Takeaways

• The modern church has shifted from making disciples to focusing on institutional growth, leading to disengagement and the rise of the "de-churched."

• True discipleship is a life-on-life process, not something that can be achieved through programs or one-size-fits-all approaches.

• Pastors are often burdened with unrealistic expectations, leading to burnout and a broken leadership model in many churches.

• Churches need to rediscover their biblical mission: making disciples who make disciples, which starts with leadership modeling the way.

• Even after leaving vocational ministry, pastors can still fulfill their purpose by walking alongside others in discipleship, finding renewed hope and identity.

Chapters

00:00 - Introduction and Welcome

00:20 - Dennis Allen’s Journey from Military and Corporate to Ministry

02:21 - Early Mentorship and the Biblical Model of Discipleship

04:30 - The Symptoms of the Discipleship Crisis in the Church

05:01 - The Rise of the "Nones," "Dones," and the De-Churched

07:24 - The Impact of COVID on Church Engagement

08:59 - Institutional Problems in the Church and the Burden on Pastors

11:52 - The Biblical Discipleship Model: Bet Sefer, Bet Midrash, Bet Talmud

14:09 - Implementing Real Discipleship in the Modern Church

17:03 - The Burden of the "Sunday Show" and Outsourcing Spiritual Responsibility

18:32 - Similarities Between Broken Churches and Broken Corporations

20:51 - Reclaiming the Church’s True Mission and Identity

23:03 - The Challenge of Discipleship in a Culture of Instant Gratification

24:45 - Overview of The Disciple Dilemma and Its Goals

26:04 - Encouragement for Pastors Transitioning Out of Ministry

27:30 - Closing Remarks and How to Connect with Dennis Allen

What do you do when God asks you to let go of the dream you’ve built your life around? Wade Joye, former worship leader at Elevation Church, shares his personal story of facing that very question. We talk about the book he wrote: This Dream Is Not For You. In this episode of Life After Ministry, Wade opens up about the moment Pastor Steven Furtick asked him to consider if he was willing to release what he was good at to embrace what God was calling him to be great at. Wade wrestled with letting go of his role as a worship leader—a dream he thought would last a lifetime—but in surrendering it, he discovered a deeper purpose.

This episode speaks directly to those in ministry transition and the decision-makers tasked with helping others move forward. We explore the often painful process of releasing control and trusting God with an unknown future. Wade’s story is an encouragement to anyone navigating the loss of a role, identity, or dream, helping you recognize that God may be writing a greater story, even when the one you’re living seems to be falling apart.

In this raw and honest conversation, Wade shares how embracing new dreams led him to a more fulfilling and joyful life, despite the fear and uncertainty along the way. From his pivotal conversation with Pastor Furtick to finding his calling beyond vocational ministry, Wade emphasizes that true peace and fulfillment often only come after we release our grip on our own plans and trust God with our whole lives. This episode is a must-listen for anyone facing ministry transitions, looking for hope and guidance as they step into the unknown.

Takeaways

• Letting go of our own dreams can open the door to God's greater plans for us.

• Ministry transitions, while painful, are often part of God's way of refining us and leading us into a new season of purpose.

• Trusting the guidance of leaders and God's timing can help us navigate through uncertainty and discover new callings.

• Our identity should not be defined by what we do (such as a job or ministry role), but by who we are in Christ.

• Calling is more about who we are becoming in Jesus than about a specific role or career path.

• Leadership transitions create opportunities for others to step into their God-given roles, making room for new growth in the church or organization.

• True peace and fulfillment often come only after we release our grip on our own plans and trust God with our entire lives.

• Developing a healthy inner world, focusing on our spiritual and emotional health, is essential for effective leadership and finding joy in new assignments.

Chapters

00:00 - Introduction and Welcome

00:38 - Wade’s Journey and the Story Behind the Book

04:15 - The Turning Point: Pastor Steven Furtick’s Challenge

06:10 - Wrestling with the Dream and Trusting Leadership

08:05 - Transitioning into New Roles and Calling

12:13 - Redefining Calling: Identity vs. Assignment

14:03 - Stepping Away from Elevation Church

17:31 - Finding Joy in Letting Go and Creating Space for Others

20:42 - True Peace and Fulfillment After Letting Go

25:13 - Wade’s Ministry Today: Coaching and The Joyful Leader Program

29:04 - Final Thoughts and Encouragement

What happens when pastors hang on too long or find themselves suddenly cut off from ministry?

In part two of our conversation with Gene Getz on Life After Ministry, we tackle this crucial issue head-on. With over 50 years in ministry and 20 years post-succession, Gene offers practical wisdom on how to prepare for life after ministry, including avoiding bitterness, maintaining humility, and finding a new calling.

He shares how his own transition didn’t end his impact - in fact, it led to creating the world’s first multimedia study Bible.

For those wrestling with disappointment, Gene’s advice is clear: Don’t let anger turn to bitterness, and be ready to serve God in new ways, even when the path forward feels uncertain.

This episode is a must-listen for any pastor navigating the complexities of ministry transitions. Whether you’re nearing retirement or facing an unexpected exit, Gene’s wisdom and experience can guide you through the emotional, spiritual, and practical challenges of stepping away from the pulpit.

His message offers hope: there is a way to transition well, with grace and a lasting impact.

Takeaways

• Ministry transitions can be challenging and require wisdom, humility, and proactive thinking.
• Succession planning should involve the development of a team of supportive individuals who can provide guidance and accountability.
• Pastors who are transitioning out of ministry should consider developing a second ministry career or finding ways to fill the void left by their previous role.
• Dealing with disappointment and anger is important for pastors who have left ministry, and seeking help and forgiveness can aid in the healing process.
• Having a godly and supportive board is crucial for pastors, and addressing board dynamics is essential for a healthy ministry.
• Support and resources are needed for pastors who are transitioning out of ministry to navigate the challenges and uncertainties of their next season.

Chapters