Welcome to Men on Fire, a podcast about what it means to be a man.  Go on, Sam, get your ass over here. We're recording, mate. You ready? Are you? Yeah. We're on already. Yeah,  we're on already.  Is that because of a short time? Yeah. We're short of time today, mate. Short of time. So nice. Quickie today. You want a quickie, mate? It's a bit early for a quickie for me. Yeah, yeah. Um, but we'll do what we can. To be fair, if we've got 15 minutes. Yeah, it's not a quickie for me, so.  Yeah. Sorry about the noise in the background. We've got some diggers going, we've got very limited time. And we're going to talk about time. Yeah, yeah. So about time. Do you have enough time? No. Does anyone ever have enough time? Do you have enough time? God, no. It's really hard, isn't it? Sometimes it goes really slow. Didn't that time. Although I remember, like, being younger and having periods of my life where I felt. Wasted so much time. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's an older thing. Do you think as you get older, you start thinking, oh, shit, I think so. I mean, I remember at school holiday, six weeks would go on forever and ever and you think, oh, you know, I got forever, like here, you know, six weeks, stretch it out. And now it's like, gone in a blink of an eye. And, you know, it was like video games. I worked with a lot of young people. We talked about video gaming and stuff. Yeah. And I, I would probably be still partial to a video game, but where the fuck when am I doing that? What have you got? When am I doing that? Especially now. Like games, you have to. They're like little mini films, aren't they? You have to watch, like, scenes for ten minutes. I just can I just jump on something's head and make it explode really quickly? But yeah. Yeah. So time is pretty precious stuff, isn't it? Really? I think so, but then you've got to be careful. Because then. Because I get quite like,  not like restless. So if I, if I'm not doing anything, I'm like, I should be doing something. Yeah. I need to use this time. Yeah. But then if you're doing that sometimes you're not really. Just appreciating the moment that you're in, having downtime. And I mean, we've talked about it before we meet smelling roses and stuff, but, you know, it is important to have downtime and quiet time. It's important where you feel like you're doing stuff. I mean, I think with, you know, people feel like you've got to be doing something all the time, like jumping out of airplanes and parachuting and snowboarding and being busy and crazy and using the most of your time. But then you don't have those quiet time moments just to reflect. And yeah, um, they're really important too. So it's hard, isn't it? And then again, I guess that's individual because there probably are people with time on their hands and that's that's never a good. Well,  is that ever a good thing? I think if you haven't, if you haven't got it, you want it, you want it. But people that have got loads of times on their hands, I mean, I guess it's a bit like money. Well, if you haven't got it, you want it. And if you got lots and. Well, I was going to, I was going to say something a little controversial. That's, you know, quite a lot of people, a lot of time on their hands get up to things. Yeah. Crime? Drugs. Less. But then maybe the same with money. No, no. If you've got the money, you don't need the right to the crime. I mean, I haven't got time to do any drugs or crime or anything, so it's always time for drugs markets. Yeah. I'd love I know I would, I'd love time to even think about doing that. But yeah, it's hard, isn't it. It's, you know, work balance of work. We've talked about that stuff a lot, these things. And it does come down to time doesn't it? Time and money and love and things like that. It's so weird as well because time is like this rigid concept. You can time it. You can literally see it. You can watch it go past, you can categorize it, split it up. But the&

Welcome to Men on Fire, a podcast about what it means to be a man. There we go. We're recording,  I think. Yeah. We're recording. Yeah. Yeah, I think we're recording. So. Technology in this cold. We're about half an hour. We're about. No, we are technically. You said. We said we'd meet at nine. Yeah. It's now 55 minutes past. Yeah. And we've only just started. Yeah, yeah, we have an hour. We've got a lot of water under the bridge already. And quite often me and Sam, when we just end up chatting, we end up in the worlds too. Right. And then not recording it and then. Yeah, but then there's some sensitive information we probably would want to edit out quite a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So not that sensitive. We're not talking about the body again. No is in my car. The reason I brought up the time was because we were going to talk about time management. Oh, yeah. Oh, sorry. I missed the cue there. I missed the cue. You opened the door and I asked because we chose the subject again right at the start, about an hour ago and talked about everything else. Yeah. Time management box. How do you manage your time? Sometimes I don't know how I manage my time. Lack time, lack of management. Yeah, yeah I do all right with work and my oil work. My old job. I'm very good at that. I mean, that's getting busy now and I'm juggling plates with with that and family stuff. So. And with barbecue. So yeah. Time management is um, is is important. I do struggle with it, but I have to be effective really with, with a lot of it, especially with my oil work. I can't not be effective with time management with that. You know, you've got to plan. You've got to meet deadlines. You've got to do that. Do you find it easier with. Because I was I was thinking about this before we start talking the. So with time management, the bit I find hardest is when there isn't a clear answer, which is maybe more about decision making. But where should I be spending my time? Whereas actually with oil work or with me, with sessions like when people book a session, it's 11 to 12. I'm doing the session. That's what I'm doing, you know, and and even with things like sport, rugby, you know, a lot of blokes go into the Army and get something from that, that sort of there's no time management for me to do anymore. Everyone's telling me what to do. Yeah. But when you go, I find it hard. When it's like, okay, should I leave an hour early for work and pop in to see my mum and dad for a coffee? Because I've seen them for a while? Or should I spend half an hour playing with my son? Or actually, should I get there early so I'm more prepped for work, you know, or it's that kind of time management I find really hard. But I think there's like self time management where you have to be disciplined yourself and you've got like a slot of time. That's the one. I'm sure that that one, um, I can be quite good at that. But I know I do my best work when kind of when my back's against the wall. So. Right. Writing the books, I. You have to write in my barbecue books. You have to be stacking up recipes ready. You have to be working. Working. But then bringing it all together and writing it up, I literally would just sit down for a few days solid bang bang bang bang bang just before the deadline even. But I would have been completely screwed if I hadn't have had that background of work ready. But I know I've got to bring it all together. That bang bang bang I and I like my oil work. I can't do that because there's like steps you have to to hit each step. So you can't, you know, you've got to have those steps in in order. And probably my biggest frustration quite often is other people, their interaction with you and that they might not have the same that time. They're not on my time management. And that's okay. I've got okay with that. But, you know, it's not just work, it's family. It's, you know, it's it's lots of things that fit in time and it's trying to get the time sometimes for you as well.

Welcome to Men on Fire, a podcast about what it means to be a man. Hello, hello, hello. Welcome to Men on Fire. Do that again. Yeah, we're we're live, mate. We're live with my colleague, podcast recorder and friend. Definitely friend. Yeah. How are you doing, mate? How you do, mate. Good. Well, this is first. Yeah. And also what's funny about this podcast is when we record, sometimes we've been yammering on to each other for about two hours. So then we know exactly as soon as I press the record button, we go, right. What should we talk about? Yeah, we kind of covered it all. We talk about friendships though. Yeah, yeah. And I would say that is a a bonding factor in our friendship Marcus just kind of. Yeah. Offload to each other. Yeah I think it's important to have somebody you can talk to and mate and, you know, not just with the mental health thing. It's men's mental Health Month in November. People are growing with stashes and stuff. And yeah, isn't that that's for ball cancer isn't it. No. That's is it. No Movember. Oh, that's what I meant. Grow mustaches. Remember Movember? Is it for testicular cancer? Is it? Is it not? I don't know, one of us is going to sound bad, isn't it? I mean, they're both, you know. I know it's men's mental health month, November, so. Yes, maybe I'm getting confused that two. No, I think it's both. Both? Yeah. Anyway, we've established that we don't know. Anyway, most most men have got balls anyway, so. Well, most men think with their balls sometimes at some point in their life. So, you know, perhaps it's one and the same. Yeah. Yeah. Health and head health. Yeah. But yeah, friendship's really important, isn't it. You know, I obviously I value you as a friend and you know that's that's amazing. And I also believe sort of friendships come and go a bit. And I'm not saying I'm going to leave you. Yeah. Yeah. But they do. And it's it's hard sometimes, you know, you can be in the moment with and going back to podcasts. What was it a couple where we were in the moment. You can be in the moment with friends and sometimes it's just not  I don't know, lives move on and different. And, you know, I look back and I've got very few friends from, you know, like university days and early on days and, you know, I'd rather have a group of sort of tight knit friends rather than a few people who I sort of stay in touch with who are like friends. Yeah, 1s yeah, it is hard, isn't it? Because I think. Quite often you look at a relationship and then if you drift apart or you're not as close as you were, that's always seen as a negative. But actually I think about it as well. That was a really good time. We had together when we saw each other all the time. But then circumstances change. Life changes. You still touch base every now and again with my uni mates. We're quite close, but we don't really speak to each other. We just meet up for birthdays. But when you're there, it's like nothing's happened. You like back in the room? Yeah, I think that's a bit of a difference with blokes. I mean, talking, you know, with wife and female friends and stuff. Female friendships can be a bit more intense and, you know, you've got to be a bit more  keeping up. And, you know, that's part of the, you know, if I go out with like a mate I haven't seen in a few years, you go out and have a beer and, you know, it's like nothing's sort of happen. You don't have to force it. I find, you know. Yeah, it just is just there. And, you know, it's that realization that actually may be leading different lives, but you've got common sort of history. You've had a few beers together at some point, and you don't need to force it. I don't, don't think. There's also I think there's like things you go through in your life that change or that you don't do anymore. And sometimes maybe particularly with blokes, maybe not, but. It's like you played rugby together, so you saw each other week in, week out for years, but now you don't play rugby. S

Welcome to Men on Fire, a podcast about what it means to be a man. All right, mate. All right. All right, let's go in. We started off. We? Yeah. Um, forgotten what to do. Really was all. I was all chatty earlier, and then you fed me this. Incredible. Steak. Tomahawk steak. And I'm in a bit of a meat coma now. But a good one. Yeah, a good brunch. I mean, what's it now? It's only like 10:00 and we've had a tomahawk steak, which is. It was ridiculous,  but we can't talk about it. Marcus doesn't do barbecue, so I can't tell you what you did or how, but it was. It was very dirty, though. It was very dirty. I gave it a good way. Dirty finish. Oh, what was that? You could you. We can talk about the salt that you used. What was that? Yeah. Toby. Toby. Tom's new salt. He sent me a few boxes of that, so it was a nice pecan smoked salt. Oh, we sent you a few boxes. Yeah. Yeah. You didn't send me any boxes, so you can't talk about it on this podcast. It's a joint effort to send me some tubby tom or whatever your name is, but you get the benefit of it, so I did. Yeah. To be fair, I do keep sending them to Marcus. I've still get my fingers in the salt. Yeah, although that would make it go moist and stick together. You don't want that? No, no, not that I've got moist fingers anyway. What we're talking about today, um. Why? I haven't been here for a couple of weeks, so we've sort of missed a couple of recording sessions. So I had a group of chefs here, um, a couple of weeks ago, which was great fun, passing on my barbecue knowledge. And last week I had a holiday  which brought up the subject of holidays, didn't it? Yeah, yeah. Holidays. So. Was this a good holiday? You come back feeling recharged and ready to go. Yeah. I don't know about recharged, but just different, different mindset. I talked to my wife about this, and sometimes it really helps us to have a different mindset. And remember you saying when you had your holiday, your lovely warm holiday in the summer, that you came back and you needed another holiday, but you felt different, like almost like recharged a little bit in a different way. But but it was that change of scene, wasn't it, I think. Definitely, definitely. It's like the first day you come back from holiday. You always appreciate your bed and your home more than any other day until you go on holiday again. Come back, I think. And that was I was thinking then when I asked you, or was it a good holiday and did you come back feeling recharge? Well, that's not that's not everyone's measurement of a holiday, is it? I suppose it's like when you're 18 and you go to Ibiza with the lads. Not that I've ever done that. Oh, it's Thailand with the lads. Up into my ether with a lad, mate. And with the lad. Yeah, the lad and. Yeah. That's not like some sort of different holiday. No, no, no, that was, that was a good. We went into a travel agents a day before and said we want to go somewhere that ends in uncovered. We want to go tomorrow. Right. So Ibiza was it. That's funny, isn't it? Because I'm a bit of a tangent then, but I remember being that sort of age and before was that sort of place you go with the lads or lasses to, you know, do stuff, do bits and now it's like it's quite a sort of swanky holiday spot for sort of older clubbers, isn't it? If me and you were going to go on clubbing holiday now with a bit of cash to throw around your cash, not mine.  Um, then we would go Ibiza and go to all the swanky clubs. Mean James Haskell's there. Exactly, exactly. There's a lot. I don't know what it says, you know. Yeah. Um, but yeah. Yeah. It was. No, it's a nice holiday. Thank you. It was. It was good. Do you think now, would you judge a holiday?  But quite heavily on either recharging or giving headspace. Is that like what you would think? It's just doing something different from the day, say, daily grind, but just doing something different from what I do normally, which you know, is pretty amazing. But I do

There we go. Right. I'll put the phone down. Put your phone down. Not going to look at the clock. Phones down. Not look at the clock. Stare at that fire for a bit. Yeah. Get completely in the moment, Marcus. Talk about it. We are at this moment. Yeah, it's. It's a subject I'm trying to do, like, focus more on and trying to bring a bit more into my life. Um, I've. I've always been somebody very goal orientated and thinking. Right, next thing, next book, next. You know, what can I do next, next, you know, project. And I forget that here and now is is really special. Really important. Oh, thanks. And right here and. Yeah. I mean I've been doing so I've been doing a bit of work with a counsellor recently and, um, it's sort of, you know, the work we've sort of got to is like that. I'm sort of. I need to plateau for a little bit. I've been working, working, working for a lot of years. The last 20 years I've been working really hard. And actually I just need to stop and smell the roses a little bit. And. I enjoy some of my hard work. Instead of thinking about hard work, thinking about the next thing, just enjoying where you are and the level you got to. Yeah, definitely. So I'm trying a bit more of that. That's something you do. You stop and smell the roses. You try and see where you are and just think, yeah, well, it's one of those, isn't it? Because being in the moment, if invariably if you look at any sort of mindfulness or you know, that is at the core of it is learning to be in the moment. Um, and I certainly think I've got better at consciously doing it. Yeah. But I do have to work at it, and it's hard work. Yeah, I'm quite in the moment in terms of changing from moment to moment, but don't stay still somewhere for very long. So I'm trying to get better at that, particularly when it's like nice stuff. Family time, time with my son.  Is that hard? Because you mean you got a tendency to flip around between stuff? So 100% is very hard and it's hard work and have to put things in place and whenever. So like, for example, with my son and the phone, you know, it's so easy to check an email to try and get some work done, you know, that kind of stuff. Whereas if I'm out in nature, I find that kind of makes it easier to just switch off. Um, but the other thing, which kind of ties back to what we were talking about last week, is I look for activities where I can't not be in the moment. It's kind of like cheating. Yeah, yeah, it forces you into it. Exactly. So I went from rugby, which was always that, and that was part of my life from probably 13 to. 35. So when that, when that went, it left quite a big hole. And so I've discovered jujitsu. And in a way that was almost because with rugby, if I was playing and I was catching quite a lot. So I was like worried about the result and stuff sometimes. Whereas with jiu jujitsu, if you aren't in the moment, you're probably going to get strangled. So it's kind of like you've got to be completely responsible to be present. It's amazing for that. So I think you can either like, go down the sort of Buddhist route of you've got to practice it and, you know, listen to the sounds and feel the sensations and grounding and all that stuff, which is really valuable. But equally, if you're struggling with that, you can just fast track it. Just find something where you're getting strangled. Go get straight. Yeah, yeah. Maybe not for you, but you know something? Where for some people, it could be things like. Like I talked to my father in law about it. In the way he describes, like, shooting and shooting air rifles. And, you know, that's that for him. That kind of focused on the shot and the breath and all that kind of stuff. So there's loads of ways to do it. I think you're finding that with barbecue and like the fire thing, can you, can you sort of. Because I can. I'm lucky that I can sort of switch off and look at a fire. And I find a lot of people sit around the fire and you lose them into the fire

Welcome to Men on Fire, a podcast about what it means to be a man. How are you doing? We started. We started literally going to hold onto a hand. She was saying the words were  not fit.  Oh, right, right. Yeah. Yeah. So it's always all about. We have a game of rugby. That's probably a bit crazy. So. Yeah, two words. For example, 49 and I'm going to be 50 in January and I've sort of my rugby saw fizzled out and got fat and unfit and it just I just thought my work picked up and I just thought for him. Okay. But something in me when the dead. When did you like that? Six years ago. Um, and something in me was like, um, saying you still got, got it in you sort of thing. And,  um, yeah, so I've, I've obviously lost a bit of weight recently and got fitter and, um, so my daughters playing rugby and I'm talking with my coaches girls and well cups on your cup song there and yeah it's perfect storm really happened and um, yeah. And they said oh do you fancy up in the game? And I'm like, well yeah and, and I've been missing it. I really miss the, the, the mental health effect it had on my head when, when I started playing, when I was like 28. And really after the university ID start, it really had a bit of both, both a benefit for me and it really helped me with my mental health. And um, you know, I'm sure you know that as well. Rugby is really good for, for stress and stuff going on just clears your head. It just makes you lighter. And even though your body aches,  know something about. Oh yeah, oh, my body would say solid. I mean, objectively speaking. Coming back and playing rugby. Falsified. Lied. Six years.  It's ridiculous. They may already kind of covers the benefit of it. Why? Maybe that outweighs the particular physical stress. Yeah. You know, and I've been struggling a little bit with a few things recently and just saw the game of rugby clear my mind a little bit and sort and, and just just enjoy it and,  you know, so I heard it. Yeah. Like sort of threes game in, in the offing. I'm like, yeah, you better go. I thought well what's the worse it can happen over 20 minutes at the end probably. I mean I saw  this unit if you listen is a familiar with rugby now  so. So I'm just I'm 40. I haven't played since I was about 30 war and then five I had one game a few years back there is my son will come back and do 20 minutes for the back row which is not the easiest position really, but. You play front row. And so when you do a comeback game in a third team in the front row for anyone that's not quite that sort of standard.  But local won't be lost. Yeah. Yeah. It's not like. It's not, like long before you forget a ball. Yeah. Lot of big boys push it. Yeah, it's a fight in the scrum, so. Yeah. Yeah. So. Yeah. Thought I'd give it a go, and I ended up playing for the second team, so it wasn't even really a battle. It's a friendly, but no such thing. Really. Is that. Oh, no. And yeah, second team, they told me. Right. You're starting. Okay. No, um. Thought that. Yeah, that's what I mean. Like, if you play in a few, you're away or.  Uh, yeah, just other positions like you. You're coming back with my mom? Just standing there. Okay. Yeah, it definitely wasn't allowed. Lowliest ground, anyway. Lasted 60 minutes, had a couple runs, few tackles, um, lot of scrums and. Yeah. Managed 60 minutes before my neck started. Give it up then give up the ghost. But yeah, I've loved it. I was chuffed that my my my neck and not my legs, you know. That said I've still got that fit. That's so only get around the carcass now. Is it a comeback or is it a comeback? And then go show where you go. No, that's a good that's a good question. So could just like think of it as just a one off bang, you know? But there is something in me going no, nothing got all glory in your tank and so yeah mean so guess the the subject for today it's all comebacks and you know stopping something and is it worth restarting. Is it w

Welcome to Men on Fire, a podcast about what it means to be a man.  Well, coffee sorted. Yeah, it's nearly half. Yeah. Early for a fireside out there, I think. Yeah. I mean, they don't need to know how we record it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. They don't need to know how early is. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe one the side. Yeah. It's definitely turning as well. Feeling a bit more autumnal here at barbecue school. It's  a storm Agnes thing today. Right. And if any model for still. Yeah. I think it's quite easy to get your name right to get names of the storm. Yeah, I think so. After the old days, this would look like this would be a mild blow. It would be mild, but yeah, I like quite like a storm for me. Like, um, adverse weather conditions are an opportunity to, um, get out and barbecue because, like, when it's a nice sunny summer's day, afternoon, evening, whatever, then it's easy for me and like a bit more of a challenge. And, you know, just to feel that I'm pushing myself. So quite often you see some real hardcore barbecue people get out in the snow or in a storm and they get all excited. I've seen a few. Oh, he's cooking install magnets. It's like, yes. Oh, it's like a badge of honour to get outdoors and cooking. I can see and ideas appeared. Show some if there's any juice out there. Yeah right. Extreme barbecue it basically Marcus gets all all over the world in different extreme environments. Lavender bar Winchester. I'd be up for that. Yeah. Yeah. Like wing walking on a plane. Yeah, I'm pretty on down with that. Yeah, I'm definitely dying with that. So, top of the pyramids. Yeah. Underwater barbecue. That would be. I think it's. I saw somebody do that. You know what I think? I think it was in some sort of air bubble thing, actually. Yeah. Yeah, they did this underwater barbecue. Yeah. I mean, they must be probably is. Is there not an element that could be heated underwater and you could wear a diving suit and you technically cook off it? What? The air happened with that. Yeah. You could think with the world war would get really hot. Yeah, yeah,  yeah. It's not I've not thought it through entirely, but, you know, it could be something that could really leave. And television legacy. Yeah. Yeah. That's what we're going to talk about again. You know, we. I was fishing around for a few ideas, and some of the guys came up with an idea for talk about legacy and oneness. What legacy can be handed down to us and what we pass on to guests. The next lot of people who come along, that's probably already here. But yeah, let's let's start with the definition man was legacy. Me. I think it's what you, what you take from previous like I said and what you hand on to next generations what is that so or whoever comes on from that you know, doesn't have to be a generation next. But you know so if you did you have to be multiple people to carry the legacy. Oh, because if you know, because I think we were talking before and would say like this might be difficult episode for me to be positive. I've got some negative feelings about certain things that happen in the world and how easy it is to even leave a legacy, but  as an individual. But of course, sir, so my focus now is not that that will be my legacy. Is this doing my best for him and hoping that, you know, he's in a comfortable, good place and. Oh. But that's important. Also, if you're not a parent, you as a you, you could argue that if you just made one person's life better or impacted one area, even if it's really narrow within your community. Is that that to me that you could still count that as a legacy in commission? Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I think so. And I think I think yeah, for me, it's really a big legacy. Yeah. For me, if if you can, um, work out a way of leaving a positive impact on the world and those about you, then that's a good legacy. Whatever it is you do, then you've left things better than what they were. We can get here now. I'm feeling. I don't know what th

Welcome to Men on Fire, a podcast about what it means to be a man. All right, mate, How are you? Welcome to do that thing in the beginning. Yeah. You realise who that voice is, don't you? No. No, it sounds like some. So I tried various slight things, and like a lot of them, we tried tested a couple of new. And lot of them sound like robot voice. That's actually Father Christmas, right? The verified Father Christmas? No, not even an AI father Christmas voice. And I just thought it sounded like a very wise man that.  Father Christmas would definitely be modern.  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's  Jeff Bezos. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The modern Father Christmas. Yeah, yeah, It feels like it at our house. The things that showed up around Christmas time and. Yeah, Yeah, well, we're living it. Yeah. How are you, mate? Yeah, not bad, mate, but Holiday. With the pump. We flew into Exeter and about 20 minutes before we landed. There were floods in Exeter, so we had to fly on to Bristol. Oh yeah. Which it was my. Was that on the Sunday? Thursday. Oh, Thursday. A young son's first trip abroad and fly at home. So we then had to land and then they said they were going to arrange taxis. And I'm thinking like, I've got an Exeter perspective. Like that's going to take four, four hours for taxis to come and go. But actually it was Bristol, so they had like a massive fleet. Yeah. Yeah. Half hour or so. Yeah, it's all good. It's one of those. I think we were talking about it last week at the.  That's all practice of gratitude. Mike spoke of our need before. I've heard about a law trying to remember. Yeah, but it's so easy to slip. But it's also so important because I was on holiday and it's Greece, you know, it's lovely. But there's. There's bits that are not kind of what we're after. All this stressful things that happen on holiday. Yes, it's fairly standard and you're kind of on only ten days or she can't count quality food to get her higher comfort bed. Yeah. And then the minute I woke up my own bed as I  was back in Greece. Yeah. The hot sun. Yeah. And it pulled back. I'm waiting on a beach. Yeah, no worries. And just the worry being like planning which taverna you're going to eat.  Me. Thoughts for lunch? Yeah. Back at work. Now, holidays are on double edged sword, really. You know, it's good to have that wine down that break. But, you know. Yeah, you think you realize when you get home how lucky you are. But yeah it's not always easy is that people think our holiday break away but it's so they're a different country, different craft and different culture, different things and it's not always easy. And in my practice, gratitude are what Brian is now saying. Yeah me you now publicly moaning that you've gone on a date to Greece and there's probably people that I'm not at all day that takes years. So again, that kind of cycle of gratitude and gratitude is constantly. Yeah, yeah. So what we're talking about today, um, it came up, one of the guys, um, a good friend of mine was looking around for ideas and stuff just like that. He set up a really good Facebook group. People, you know, blokes who like sitting around fires. Jane Which is kind of like one of our successes. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Definitely. But one of the subjects he wanted us to have a look at was failure. Yeah, the other side. And we've looked at sass and motivation and being motivated and things and it's, I think it's good to look at what happens when things aren't quite going right. And what happens then? Do you let it knock you? Do you learn from it? You know, there's lots of, um, of ways of going. Guess it depends where you are as a person. I think, you know, sometimes I feel, you know, if when things aren't going right, I can't. Yeah. Makes everything else hard to deal with. Other times when I'm really focused, I say, All right, that hasn't worked. I'm going to try this and see if that works and learn from that failure that how how you deal with fa