Statistically, the number of ministry leaders struggling with their identity, calling and confidence in ministry is growing, and they are feeling more and more isolated. In this episode, Pastor and Executive Director Johnny McCallister unpacks how ministry leaders need each other more than ever before. Johnny shares keys for resiliency learned from over 30 years of ministry, tools for ministering to others, and what it looks like to allow yourself to be ministered to as well.

We also discover that Johnny & Chad have the same sandwich order, which of course means they’re now best friends–Enjoy this one!

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

• The Resilient Pastor: Leading Your Church in a Rapidly Changing World by Glenn Packiam
• Barna: The State of Pastors Summit
• Connect further with Johnny via Pastors in Prayer Website

Guest Bio:

Johnny Mac is the Executive Director of Pastors in Prayer. Pastors in Prayer is a transformative non-profit ministry dedicated to engaging, encouraging, and equipping pastors from various denominations to thrive in their ministry. Leveraging Johnny's 34 years of experience and wisdom in pastoral leadership, Pastors in Prayer aims to provide valuable resources, support, and mentorship to pastors of all ages. Pastors in Prayer seeks to add value to pastors' lives and ministries, ultimately impacting the Kingdom of God.

Johnny McCallister is the former senior pastor at the First Church of God, where he served for over 13 years. Before that, Johnny served as an Associate Pastor for 18 years, focusing on Student Ministry in his home state of WV and in Fort Wayne. Johnny has been married to Sherrie McCallister for 36 years. Over the years, Sherrie has been instrumental in partnering in many aspects of ministry experience. They have four children: Victoria, the Director of Development at YMCA of Greater Fort Wayne. Brianna works as a Kindergarten Teacher in the Fort Wayne School District; Silas is a senior at Indiana University Kelly School of Business; and Beckett is a sophomore at Carroll High School.

Episode Credits:

Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams

Produced by Chad Garrison

Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It:
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Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.

How does knowing who you’ve been created to be as a leader directly impact your effectiveness in discipling others? Pastor and denominational leader, Beth Hackbarth, sits down for a conversation with us to share how her own journey of self-discovery opened up a new level for her in leading others. In this episode, we also talk about what the long game of developing people and leaders in our care looks like, and the impacts of being less loosy-goosy and more strategic in our approach to disciple formation.

We may have also created a spin-off podcast for Brenton & Beth about homesteading. Time will tell–check this one out!

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

• To connect further with Beth at, the Foursquare Central District, her FB page or at bhackbarth@foursquare.org
• Foursquare “Discover” Resources
• Younique - Personal Calling Training

Guest Bio:

Beth Hackbarth is passionate about trailblazing the capacity of people and organizations by pioneering pathways for optimum impact.

With over two decades of experience in ministry, Beth has worn many hats, including Co-Lead Pastor, Worship Pastor, Youth Pastor, Leadership Development Director, Communications and Creative Arts Director, and most recently, as Associate Supervisor for the Central District of Foursquare Churches. In this role, she provides oversight, development, and care to 1,200 pastors across 275 churches in a 17-state region.

Beth holds a bachelor’s degree from Life Pacific University and will be graduating with her master’s degree in Leadership and Culture from George Fox University (Portland Seminary) in May 2025.

For 18 years, Beth has been married to her best friend and ministry partner, Ben. Together, they are raising three children—Analeigh (15), Malachi (13), and Judah (11)—on a homestead in northeastern Colorado. Outside of their busy ministry life, they love fishing, hunting, hiking, backpacking, and spending long summer days at the lake.

Episode Credits:

Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams

Produced by Chad Garrison

Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It:
Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee
Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.

Is it your “ministry”, or your “mission assignment”? Distinguishing this small, yet profound detail has made all the difference for our guest, Pastor Peter Henderson. In this episode, Peter shares how being a survivor of the Columbine thrust him into Pastoral Ministry as a teen–leading him to become a Senior Pastor in his 20’s, the wisdom gained from being a young leader in a healthy transition, and how his passion for being on mission together with Jesus creates a culture of integrated missiology.

Also, Peter doesn’t like to be poked, and many apologies are made. So give it a listen!

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

• Perspectives USA Course
• Emergenetics International
• To connect further with Peter at livingwayfellowship.org

Guest Bio:

Peter Henderson has been the senior pastor at Living Way Fellowship in Highlands Ranch, Colorado since January 2010 and is currently the Foursquare Central District Mission Mobilizer. Peter and his wife, Jill, have been married since 2014 and have two beautiful young daughters, Bonnie and Brigitte.

Peter completed his BA in Biblical Studies and MA in Strategic Leadership at Life Pacific University. He has served as a board member for several mission agencies, including OMF, an organization serving East Asia’s peoples, and GlobalCall, a leadership and community outreach ministry in Ethiopia. He’s passionate about collaborative leadership, disciple-making movements and reaching Unreached People Groups.

Episode Credits:

Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams

Produced by Chad Garrison

Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It:
Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee
Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.

We’re back! And for our first episode of Season Four we’re visited by Pastor and Non-Profit Leader, Jared Ballenger. In this conversation Jared shares why the word “ministry” has always been spelled “w-o-r-k” (and how that’s not a negative thing), finding freedom on the other side of burnout and the incredible work of rescuing children from human trafficking that he gets to be a part of with Destiny Rescue. It’s a chill interview, so sit down with us!

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

• Destiny Rescue Website
• To connect further with Jared: jared.ballenger@destinyrescue.org / Instagram: @jaredballenger / Facebook: www.facebook.com/jarednballenger

Guest Bio:
Jared Ballenger, a devoted husband to Lauren and father to Liam and Rigley, is a passionate advocate for justice from Fort Wayne, IN. As the Director of Church Engagement for Destiny Rescue, he empowers churches to take action against human trafficking by connecting them with opportunities to bring freedom to vulnerable children. During visits to Destiny Rescue’s projects in Africa, Jared witnessed the transformative power of rescue firsthand, participating in operations that brought life-changing freedom to exploited children. Also as a licensed Foursquare pastor, Jared dreams of planting a church with his wife one day, where they can continue to serve people and spread hope.

Episode Credits:
Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams
Produced by Chad Garrison

Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It:
Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee
Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.

At its core, experiencing pain simply means that something is off. And oftentimes, we think pain is bad. And sometimes it is. And sometimes it can be really useful. In our Season 3 Finale, therapist and pastor, BrianJames McMahon, unpacks for us how being honest and lamenting his own pain changed everything for him–including stepping out of vocational ministry. It’s possible to not fear pain, wrestle with lament, and bravely face the possibility of leaving a ministry, with hope–and without hating it.

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

• Church Well Co Website
• BrianJames Therapy Website
• Connect further with Brian James at Instagram: @brianjamesmcmahon @church_well_co

Guest Bio:
BrianJames McMahon is a pastor, counselor, and founder of both Church Well Co, and BrianJames Therapy. He works with pastors, churches, and communities to develop safe(r) relational and emotional spaces for healing and connection.

BrianJames cares deeply that the Church of Jesus embodies the person of Jesus with beauty, bravery, and connection.Never one to shy away from messiness and pain, he has committed his life to helping leaders honestly face the pain present in their lives and callings and to walk into the fullness of the life Jesus has for them in honesty, openness, and bravery.

Episode Credits:
Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams
Produced by Chad Garrison

Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It:
Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee
Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.

As ministry leaders, there are things about ministry that we hate, and that’s ok. It only took us 37 episodes to get to that, but here we are for a conversation with pastor, professor, fellow podcaster and friend, Tim Lee. In this episode Tim gets reflective on his own recent journey of deconstructing what ministry is vs. what he’s always known, the truth that we are still not healthy after all that happened in 2020, and why apathy is actually the greatest threat to anything we do. It’s a real iron vs. iron conversation!

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

• Listen to the How To Church Podcast here
• The Violent Take It By Force by Matthew D. Taylor
• The Gift of Thorns by A. J. Swoboda
• Connect further with Tim at avlife.church/about-us

Guest Bio:
The most important thing about Tim Lee is that he loves Jesus, is married to his high school sweetheart, Sharon, and together they are raising their two daughters, Hannah and Selah.

Tim has served in ministry leadership roles at various Foursquare churches for more than two decades, and since 2011 he and Sharon have been the Co-Lead Pastors of Life Church in Lancaster, California.

Having earned a doctorate in Leadership and Spiritual Formation from Portland Seminary, Tim also serves as the Chair of the Department of Theology and Ministry at LIFE Pacific University and Director of the McPherson Preaching Institute (MPI) where he hopes to plant seeds that will cultivate the next generation of pentecostal preachers and ministry leaders.

Episode Credits:
Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams
Produced by Chad Garrison

Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It:
Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee
Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.

As leaders, we must face the reality that we will all journey with sexual sin and purity, whether personally, and/or with others. In this episode, Robby Booth breaks down how this journey isn’t just about sex, but rather about wounded-ness in hearts. Robby also gives practical tools to combat treating our sexuality like soup, and living fully in the transformation God gives. Don’t give up your birthright!

It’s time for a Soul Check, an open discussion with ministry leaders and mental health specialists focused on reinforcing the most important part of you–your soul!

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

• Covenant Eyes - Pornography Accountability
• Conquer Series with Ted Roberts
• F.A.S.T.E.R. Relapse Scale
• The Attachment Theory Workbook by Annie Chen, LMFT
• Clean: A Proven Plan for Men Committed to Sexual Integrity by Doug Weiss
• Intimacy: 100 Day Guide to Lasting Relationships by Doug Weiss
• 30 Day Marriage Makeover by Doug Weiss
• Married and Alone: Healing Exercises for Spouses by Doug Weiss
• Intimacy Anorexia. A workbook by Doug Weiss
• Partners: Healing from His Addiction by Doug Weiss
• Connect further with Robby at rbooth777@gmail.com

Guest Bio:
Robby Booth alongside his wife, Bonita, presently serves the NCO as the director of CSR West. As minister of Pastoral Care directing CSR West, Robby brings care and restoration to pastors, ministers & missionaries of the Foursquare movement. Robby and Bonita have served as senior pastors of Faith Chapel Foursquare Church in Glendale, Ariz. for eleven years. Robby and Bonita later moved to Modesto to serve as district supervisors of the former Western District office of Foursquare churches in January 1995.

Robby received a dual major bachelor's degree in Christian ministries/counseling from Hope University and a master's degree in marriage and family counseling from Azusa Pacific University. Prior to moving to Arizona, he served eleven years on staff at Trinity Christian Center Foursquare Church as the married couples’ pastor. He is CERT, CISM and DRT certified as well as specialties in dealing with trauma and sexual addictions. Ordained in 1979, Robby directed two counseling centers in Southern CA before becoming a senior pastor. With over 80,000 hours of counseling, Robby was initially licensed as a MFCC in 1980, later also becoming a trauma specialist.

“An ordinary guy serving an extraordinary God!” is how Robby would say he wants to be known, loving God and loving people. He is a strong family man with deep love for his wife, Bonita, as well as their three children, Jeremy, Jessica, and Joshua and wonderful grandchildren.

Episode Credits:
Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams
Produced by Chad Garrison
Episode Artwork Photo by Warren on Unsplash

Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It:
Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee
Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.

How do you keep the “why” of ministry at the forefront of your ministry? Sometimes it takes a healthy dose of perspective of another leader’s reality. This episode with NextGen Leaders, Zach & Caitlin Thomas, may be one of those moments. In this interview they share how they’ve been able to see fruit in their inner city student ministries, the gospel burden every ministry leader should carry, and the importance of stepping back and saying, “But Look What God Did!” We also finally answer the debate of which city is actually the real “Little Chicago”.

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

• Connect further with Zach & Caitlin at gviewkids@grandviewchurch.com, or piggca14@gmail.com and via Facebook: Zach, Caitlin

Guest Bio:
Pastors Zachary (Zach) and Caitlin (Cait) Thomas started dating in 2008 after they met at a county fair. In 2012, these high school sweethearts got married and began their life as husband and wife. God has richly blessed them with three beautiful children, Samuel (9), Daniel (6), and Gabriella (3). They also have several pets including two dogs, three chickens, two ducks, several fish, a turtle, and a leopard gecko.

Being born the son of a pastor, Zach grew up with a rich relationship with the Lord and was deeply connected to the church. Having always known that there was a call to pastoral ministry on his life, Zach officially assumed the role of Children’s Minister in August 2018, under the leadership of his father, Sr. Pastor, Dennis Thomas.

Cait’s path to pastoral ministry was not as direct as her husband’s. Unlike Zach, Cait grew up as an in the Catholic Church but lacked a true relationship with God. When she started dating Zach, he asked her to come to youth group and Sunday morning service with him at Grandview Church. During a Wednesday night youth service in November 2008, Cait gave her life to the Lord. Since 2010, she has faithfully served in both children’s and youth ministry at Grandview, as well as singing on the worship team and writing worship songs for their congregation. In May 2020, Cait officially became the Youth Minister at Grandview Church. She also serves in a bi-vocational role, splitting her time working a large health insurance company as well as the church.

In fall of 2020, both Zach and Cait became licensed ministers through the Foursquare Church, and they were ordained in March of 2023. The primary make-up of their ministry is inner-city outreach. A large majority of their students come from homes with food insecurities, socioeconomic struggles, addiction issues, imprisoned parents/guardians (or have faced jail-time themselves), single-parent homes, gang affiliation, and kids faced with being pulled from their homes by DCFS. While their ministry has many challenges, they love what they do, and they firmly believe that God has called them to this area to make a difference through the Power of Jesus. They passionately believe that to be an effective ministry, you must feed the body, the mind, and the heart/soul.

Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It:
Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee
Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.