“The abuser often maintains that facade of having it together and looking after their partner. It’s that image we tried to set up immediately,” says award-winning director Jack Stockley. He opens up about his true purpose behind his short film “Purgatory,” - to reveal the quiet devastation of coercive control in abusive relationships. By portraying the abuser as charming and well-composed, Jack exposes a disturbing duality that keeps the abused partner isolated and questioning their own reality. His film’s nuanced storytelling challenges viewers to see beyond appearances and recognize the silent suffering hidden beneath the surface.

In this episode, Jack joins Dr. Jaime Zuckerman to discuss the behavioral nuances of his film and the often subtle patterns of narcissistic abuse. How do you depict domestic violence without showing physical violence? And what makes coercive control so difficult to recognize, even when it’s happening right in front of us? Jack shares how “Purgatory” uses subtle details, such as visual cues and carefully crafted dialogue, to immerse viewers in the isolating, and often invisible, world of psychological abuse. This episode encourages us to look deeper into the patterns of narcissistic abuse, so that we can recognize red flags sooner. “Purgatory” is not only a compelling film but an essential conversation starter on the realities of narcissistic abuse.

Quotes

• “So you start the film questioning, ‘What’s her problem?’ Right from the beginning, it mirrors how many abusive relationships seem from the outside. You think, ‘Well, she’s a bit messy,’ or ‘He’s holding it all together.’ The abuser often maintains that facade of having it together and looking after their partner. It’s that image we try to set up immediately.” (08:44 | Jack Stockley)
• “When a woman leaves a narcissistic, abusive, grossly controlling relationship like that, the time she’s most at risk for harm to herself and her children is when she leaves—or if they find out that she’s going to leave, or right after she leaves. That’s the highest time for violence. So it isn’t simply a matter of just leaving; it’s about leaving safely.” (16:00 | Dr. Z)
• “As a storyteller, as a filmmaker, to me, those subtle details and nuances that convey coercive control and emotional abuse are the most important. It’s the lifeblood of the film because you have to make it.” (29:33 | Jack Stockley)
• “People don’t talk about the fact that rape can exist in a marriage. It can exist in any relationship. It’s not something that happens only between strangers in the park. It’s not a cliché, but people don’t talk about it. People don’t think that it’s a real thing.” (35:19 | Jack Stockley)

Links

Connect with Jack Stockley: Follow Jack Stockley on Instagram: @thereal_jps

Follow Blue Muse Productions on Instagram: @bluemuseproductions

Visit Blue Muse Productions YouTube channel to watch Purgatory: https://www.youtube.com/@BlueMuseProductions

Jack's newest short film - Flying - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jezw_c9UwQs

Connect with Dr. Z: https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/

https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/

https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist

https://www.youtube.com/@DrJaimeZuckerman

Shop my new Mindfully Messy hoodie here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/apparel

Get my FREE breathing exercise here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/newsletter

Register for my virtual workshops here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/workshops

Order my workbooks! http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/books

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

“The liability is not yours to own; it’s the narcissist’s. Let it smother them, not you.”

Dr. Jaime Zuckerman takes a closer look at what life looks like when a narcissistic ex still finds ways to create chaos, even after the relationship has ended. How does one protect their peace and their children’s well-being when post-separation abuse seems designed to undermine it? From stirring up conflict with their children’s teachers and coaches to resurfacing hidden debts, the narcissistic ex can remain a powerful disruptor. Dr. Z shares practical insights for those navigating these situations, including how to set boundaries, how to communicate openly with children, and how to address character smear campaigns without giving the narcissist the attention they crave.

This episode is both empowering and validating, reminding listeners that while they may not be able control the narcissist’s behavior, they can control their own responses. Dr. Z’s guidance offers a path to reclaiming stability, peace, and resilience amidst ongoing challenges with a narcissistic ex.

Quotes

• “The narcissist will deliberately sever your ties with people because it further isolates you. It causes increased damage to your relationships. But most importantly, it’s one of the only ways the narcissist still has control over you.” (05:11 | Dr. Z)
• “With a narcissist, you want to give them nothing. You don’t want to give them that stage because just like the family courts, a kids little league is a stage for the narcissist to perform. Period. End of story. And the best way you handle that is by giving them nothing. The more attention you give them, the louder it gets, the more engaged in their acts the narcissist becomes.” (14:46 | Dr. Z)
• “Even though it’s embarrassing as hell, and even though you’re so angry, you’re keeping the liability on the narcissist, and that’s where it needs to be. The liability is not yours to own; it’s theirs. Let it smother them, not you.” (33:32 | Dr. Z)

Links

Connect with Dr. Z: https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/

https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/

https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist

Shop my new Mindfully Messy hoodie here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/apparel

Get my FREE breathing exercise here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/newsletter

Register for my virtual workshops here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/workshops

Order my workbooks! http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/books

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

“The narcissist will never be able to fix their corrupt disorder. It is a rigid disorder,” says Vanessa Reiser, a licensed clinical social worker and author who specializes in narcissistic and cult abuse. She joins Dr. Z to talk about the striking similarities between narcissistic relationships and cult dynamics, focusing on how coercive control plays a role in both.

Drawing from her own life experiences and professional background, Vanessa shares insights from her book “Narcissistic Abuse: A Therapist’s Guide to Identifying, Escaping, and Healing from Toxic and Manipulative People.” She breaks down how narcissists deploy tactics like gaslighting, isolating their victims, and enlisting enablers (often called “flying monkeys”) to keep control. But how does this connect to cult-like dynamics? Vanessa explains that these methods work by stripping away a person’s identity that will trap them in a mental prison that’s just as damaging as the control seen in actual cults.

This episode reminds listeners of the resilience required to break free from these toxic environments and the importance of building supportive relationships that will help individuals reclaim their identities. Vanessa’s insights offer valuable tools and strategies for overcoming these challenges that encourage listeners to seek help and validation as they move toward healing and self-empowerment.

Quotes

• “A real cult is always led by somebody who’s trying to control, groom, and manipulate others to get supply and attention. We see this in intimate relationships and families. What they’re doing is using the classic tactics of narcissists to manipulate others to do what they want. They will isolate and get you to basically only view their opinions.” (05:01 | Vanessa Reiser)
• “There’s this misconception that people who get sucked into ‘these cults’—whether it’s a cult of one, within a family system, or on a larger scale hiding behind a religious organization—have low self-esteem or no backbone. That’s not true… It’s important for people to understand that it has nothing to do with intelligence. The myth that you’re a weak person comes from the fact that once you’re in this cult—whether it’s a cult of one or something larger—the whole point is to gain control and power over you. And with that comes the loss of self-identity.” (07:48 | Dr. Z)
• “A narcissist will never be able to fix their corrupt disorder. It is a rigid disorder.” (16:49 | Vanessa Reiser)
• “A narcissist is allergic to your power and autonomy. They want to groom you and keep you ignorant, unaware, and not in the know.” (36:25 | Vanessa Reiser)

Links

Connect with Vanessa Reiser:

https://www.facebook.com/vanessa.pugliese

https://www.instagram.com/vanessareiserlcsw/

https://x.com/vanessareisersw

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrYVROGoPdYqsEFkr2XYC9A

https://amzn.to/3XPf9ad

Connect with Dr. Z:

https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/

https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/

https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist

Shop my new Mindfully Messy hoodie here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/apparel

Get my FREE breathing exercise here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/newsletter

Register for my virtual workshops here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/workshops

Order my workbooks! http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/books

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

“Toxic family systems are run like a cult,” says Dr. Sherrie Campbell, a licensed clinical psychologist specializing in family estrangement and toxic relationships. She joins Dr. Z this week to talk about the lasting damage narcissistic family members can inflict—not just on the immediate family but also on extended relatives and friends. Sharing insights from her own experience with toxic parenting, Dr. Campbell explains the roles of the golden child and the scapegoat, pointing out the often overlooked pressure on the golden child as well as the emotional burden carried by the scapegoat.

Dr. Campbell also addresses the stigma surrounding family estrangement and how guilt and shame often follow the decision to cut ties with toxic relatives. This episode touches on the emotional uncertainty that comes with estrangement and shows the importance of self-acceptance and rewriting one’s personal story to move from victimhood into empowerment.

Tune into this episode as Dr. Campbell and Dr. Z share practical tips for healing and navigating these complex relationships, leaving listeners with the hope that a more authentic, fulfilling life is possible beyond the toxic family dynamics.

Quotes

• “When you have two grotesquely self-centered parents, they’re already competing with each other before the children are born for power. And then when the children are born, they then compete for power in that aspect as well… The most toxic person in the family dynamic is the least confronted. So you would think that it would be the most confronted, but they’re the least confronted because everybody else is in fear. So without fear, there cannot be any control. Toxic family systems are run like a cult.” (03:11 | Dr. Sherrie Campbell)
• “Sick families need a scapegoat to externalize their issues onto, so they never have to confront or look at themselves.” (15:08 | Dr. Sherrie Campbell)
• “I always say to people, when you’re talking about patterns of family dynamics, there’s a ‘dance.’ And when one person in that dance goes left instead of right, it throws the entire system off balance. When you have the healthy person in the family, whether it’s an aunt, uncle, sister, brother, it doesn’t matter—when they go left instead of right, the whole system gets thrown off balance.” (15:17 | Dr. Z)

Links

Connect with Dr. Sherrie Campbell:

www.facebook.com/sherriecamobellphd

https://www.instagram.com/dr.sherrie/

https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.sherrie

Dr. Sherrie's Tedx Talk: https://youtu.be/deyHwDkG7oc?si=CkgnoNZ05dBS6y4G

Sherapy Sessions podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/ph/podcast/sherapy-sessions-cutting-toxic-family-ties/id1591691842

Adult Survivors of Emotionally Abusive Parents: How to Heal, Cultivate Emotional Resilience, and Build the Life and Love You Deserve: https://amzn.to/3XEnfCD

https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/

https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/

https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist

Shop my new Mindfully Messy hoodie here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/apparel

Get my FREE breathing exercise here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/newsletter

Register for my virtual workshops here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/workshops

Order my workbooks! http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/books

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

“The decision to go no contact with a parent is a last resort. It is a last resort of self-protection against years of manipulation and abuse,” says Dr. Z. She explains how going no contact means cutting off all forms of communication—calls, texts, and social media—and is a decision that is typically made only after enduring long-term emotional pain. It’s a decision never made lightly, as it often comes with feelings of tremendous guilt, grief, and loss.

In this episode, Dr. Z sheds light on the societal pressures that make it difficult for people to understand why someone would sever ties with a parent. She emphasizes that it’s not the adult child’s responsibility to fix a relationship with a narcissistic parent, particularly when that parent refuses to take accountability.

Dr. Z also touches on the importance of behavioral consistency when going no contact, warning that inconsistent boundaries can actually increase the chaos. She outlines the manipulative tactics that narcissistic parents might use to regain control, such as guilt trips or recruiting other family members to pressure the person back into communication. Breaking no contact, she warns, usually offers only a temporary relief before the abusive behavior resurfaces.

Dr. Z offers reassurance to those children who have made the difficult decision to go no contact. She reminds listeners that protecting their mental health is a courageous, yet difficult, step. Seeking peace and clarity is essential, and they are not alone in this journey.

Quotes

• “A decision to go no contact is not a decision that is made overnight. It is not made in direct response to an argument that you had. It’s not even in direct response to a ton of arguments you’ve had. The decision to go no contact with a parent is a last resort. No child, no child ever asks to be in a situation where they need to make a decision to have a parent in their life or not.” (03:28 | Dr. Z)
• “Going no contact with a narcissistic parent is your last effort to walk away with some sense of peace for yourself and your own family.” (14:11 | Dr. Z)
• “If you have gotten to the point where you have set no contact with a parent who is a narcissist, you have done nothing wrong. I’m sure you have thought about this for a very long time. And the fact that you did it, does not make you a bad person. It doesn't make you a bad child. It makes you incredibly brave to put your mental wellness first in such a horrific situation.” (34:04 | Dr. Z)

Links

https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/

https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/

https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist

Get my FREE breathing exercise here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/newsletter

Register for my virtual workshops here: http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/workshops

Order my workbooks! http://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/books

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm